Colored lighting

[Seven]

Hello jakub,

I know your passion in bringing things to an end, doesnt matter how long things take or how much effort it needs. And I also know that your final results are always great
You should upload your updated maps to quaketastic. There are surely players who want them.


Hello Nightfright,

The possibility of having multiple Quake setups in parallel, including different engines, makes it easy to switch between them if you want to play a special mod or map, that requests or needs a specific setup / engine.

For newer games (and steam makes this even worse) it is no longer possible...

[jakub1]

halo dear quakers,
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how did i manage to revis travail maps? that's simple my friends - had some 600+ hours of free processing time and a hell of a dedication :-). nah... to tell the truth, it wasn't easy, because just like nightfright wrote most of the recompilig tools failed. luckily, there was a lot if them and some combinations worked better that the others.
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what's interesting about travail is the fact that some of those levels were probably originally built with the intention not to support transparent water at all. you can encounter pillars that end on the water level instead of continuing further down to the bottom etc.. was that some kind of vis optimalization? i don't know, but maybe that was the reason why the creators of travail stated that travail wasn't supposed to support transparent water. however, that couldn't stop me. i like transparent water in quake and i have all levels in my colection revised. of course, except those which already have transparent water enabled.
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and one final note. seven's post reminded me that i forgot about something. years ago i revised nearly all travail maps but one. a few months ago i finally managed to revis the last travail map - qte2m6.bsp. i've never published it, but if you are interested i can upload it somewhere.
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jakub

[NightFright]

I wonder how Jakub managed VISing the Travail maps, anyway. hmap2 fails almost with each single map of it, regardless how hard I try. Good to know someone was able to do it after all, though.

I have just switched to the Fitzquake Mark V port and found it to be just what I needed: Not too many effects but many nice features (e.g. it can use .vis files and MP3 music, also works with .lit). I am testing all .lit packs I am creating with it right now. Too bad it still cannot run Nehahra.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted about my progress. My Quake addon folder is around 2 GB now, and I am sure I will be able to provide .LIT packs for some classics. They might not be perfect but should still look great.

[Seven]

Another question while we are at it:

Does it make any difference whether I create .LIT files from a VISed or non-VISed map? Or to be more precise, would the .LIT break lighting if it was made from the VISed version of a map and then used with a non-VISed version (or vice versa)?

Hello NightFright,
This is what I have found concerning this topic in MH´s readme:

Vispatched maps may or may not work; I haven't tested them, but common-sense tells me that the vispatching process should not interfere with the light data.

If you want to be sure, you can use VISed and unVISed map versions and see if you find any differences/issues.
All ID1 maps are unVISed (in your .pak files) and VISed ID1 map version are available for download. Or you can use the fast-VIS method with preconfigured files by Ken Alverson from 1997. It needs only several seconds.
Also Travail´s maps are unVISed in the original download. Jakub VISed them all (even though the readme says not to do so ). Jakub´s VISed maps are available for download at quaketastic.

See if you notice any difference...

[NightFright]

Well, I never assumed that an automation tool could do a better job than a human being. Anyway, if you don't have the time to go through hundreds (or maybe even more) levels of your favorite Quake map collection, I guess this is still the way to go.

In the end, I wouldn't even notice such issues that much since I am more focussed on survival. Ofc it looks stupid if doors are red without any appropriate light source, but personally, I am actually able to live with that - even though I am a perfectionist by myself and know it can be done much better. ^^

[golden_boy]

Without .lit:


With .lit:

If you look at the door, it appears red in the second image, but there is absolutely no red light source nearby that would do this. It comes out of nowhere.

The reason is that the re-lighting tool basically thinks "if there is a red pixel, there must be red light." This is an exceedingly stupid way to re-light a map. It would be better if you obtained the map source (whether by decompiling or by kindly asking) and selected all lights that should be yellow, give them a _color key with the corresponding RGB value, save and run QBSP and LIGHT (no vising needed) on the level, and discard everything except the .LIT file.

This could be done in a matter of hours even by an inexperienced person e.g. in TrenchBroom.

But if you wish to only spend 5 minutes instead of 5 hours on something, well, it's gonna show!

[NightFright]

Another question while we are at it:

Does it make any difference whether I create .LIT files from a VISed or non-VISed map? Or to be more precise, would the .LIT break lighting if it was made from the VISed version of a map and then used with a non-VISed version (or vice versa)?

[Seven]

I have tested MHColour with some Zerstörer maps and it seems to work the way I imagined it - doesn't destroy the original lighting while adding colors. Will keep experimenting with it and see if it makes sense to use it on more maps.

Like Spike said, best results can only be made when manually editing lights in maps.
But in my humble opinion the tool from MH already creates a really good result in most maps. Keeping the short time in mind, that the automatic way of doing it needs, leaves no real reason of not at least trying it.

I thought hmap2 was superior to it (also because it is more up-to-date).

Never underestimate tools, that are made and finetuned to do exactly 1 job. Compared to tools that are made to do a lot of different things in one.
That is the strenght of MH´s program I guess. Read his readme and you know more

Maybe I could release some .LIT packs for you guys (even though it seems to be easy enough to do it by yourself with this).

I hope so ! Looking forward to it.

[NightFright]

You guys are really great and helpful! ^^ Thanks a lot!

I have tested MHColour with some Zerstörer maps and it seems to work the way I imagined it - doesn't destroy the original lighting while adding colors. Will keep experimenting with it and see if it makes sense to use it on more maps. However, I guess it wouldn't be worth it to apply this to newer maps, e.g. epic stuff like "Honey" or "Zendar" - probably these already have colored lighting to begin with.

In fact, I was aware of the existance of MHColour, but I thought hmap2 was superior to it (also because it is more up-to-date).

I will do some serious playtesting, and if I am satisfied with the results, maybe I could release some .LIT packs for you guys (even though it seems to be easy enough to do it by yourself with this).

[Cobalt]

I found the tool in another release of lit files:

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/fi...h_May_2009.zip

[NightFright]

As always, Seven's replies are getting me somewhere.

Well, I just need to be sure that MHColour doesn't ruin the original lighting. It should basically maintain all the lighting that is there already, just color it where appropriate. I will give it a test run tonight and see if I like the results.

Apparently there are differences in what MHColour and hmap2 are doing regarding .LIT file creation.

BTW, any official download link for the tool?

[Seven]

Hello Nightfright,

Some people already made some nice .lit files for famous maps like Travail, Beyond Belief and others. I have some of them here. If you want, please say a word.

Regarding your mentioned "custom (automatically generated) .lit file production":
Spike is of course right. But there is this tiny little "almost magical" program by MH, which you also maybe know already:
MHLight LIT_Pack_14th_May_2009

I used this tool to create really beautiful looking .lit files for maps, which noone made some before and the result was always more than satisfying.

You mentioned one special map: IKSPQ5
The program you used (maybe hmap2 ?) couldnt handle it. And the result was pitch black.
MH´s program created a nice little .lit for it (I tested it just now).

Without .lit:


With .lit:



The tool is self explaining and works fast and robust. Around 5 seconds per map.
You should give it a try... if you have time.
It is only 10 MB in size.
MH obviously spend a lot of time in finetuning the light settings in his tool.
The result doesnt look "overdone" and is just right.
I like it a lot.

Best wishes,
Seven

[NightFright]

That probably explains why tools often don't add any colors at all, just change the lighting of the map (to the worse).

I assume the .lit packs available for the official maps have been done manually in a map-by-map process, then? Because they look really cool and I guess that's a quality no tool would ever be able to accomplish on its own.

Was basically looking for a cheap way to at least minimally improve old levels visually, but I guess it's not worth the effort if you end up with a black screen most of the time... xD

[Spike]

FTE with r_loadlit 2. then visit each map in turn?

actually, some maps have all of their light entities stripped from them after lighting was performed. this means that if you use some tool to recolour them, it sees no lights and just obliterates all lighting instead.

quakeworld engines partly work around this by forcing all lits to retain the same intensity as the original lights, as a cheat prevention mechanism (r_fullbright is a cheat after all). if the replacement .lit is completely black, you just end up with whatever light values were in the original bsp anyway. hurrah.
having no lights makes relighting it pointless, of course, and you'll always have problems with automatically selecting random colours based upon light types and nearby surfaces. it'll never be perfect.
so really, there's nothing you can do other than to manually add lights, and specify your own colours at the same time.