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**Canadian*Sniper** · 03-25-2006, 03:31 AM

Stay Strong CheapAlert!

**CheapAlert** · 03-25-2006, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by someone

What a stupid comment, QW IS a free multiplayer game (just like Quake2 multiplayer is free) and nothing can change that.

wrong, Quakeworld is merely an engine for users of registered Quake, and Quake2 multiplayer is not a seperate component and is only part of the full Quake2 version. rofl.

oh well, they won't be happy until todd hollenshead or syncerror gets on their ass.

**Monster** · 03-25-2006, 06:52 PM

Wow, that guy is dumb. I wouldn't worry about it CheapAlert.

**vb-** · 03-25-2006, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Baker

Update: I was content to let this issue fade away, but a certain someone is stirring the pot at Besmella with

A certain someone at Besmella knocks on CheapAlert

"CheapAlert's eQuake protest"

Ironically, if you look at the comments, there are a fair percentage of comments supporting CheapAlert's position that eQuake should go clean.

I'm no saint and have directed that I know already bought Quake and even have posted links in forums and such, but I don't think sites should have links to an illegal download on their homepage like Besmella does.

I think that taking cheap shots at CheapAlert's point of view to get attention makes pointing out that link fair game. People should be able to have their opinions respected and not get mocked.

Originally posted by Monster

Wow, that guy is dumb. I wouldn't worry about it CheapAlert.

Wow, talk about getting the wrong idea. CheapAlert has always mentioned his dislike of eQuake in #Quake1 (where I often use the nick jawn), and I've always sympathised with that point of view and encouraged him to develop CheapWorld, a package of GPL replacements of the game content, to avoid warez. If you don't believe me, ask CheapAlert or anybody in #Quake1 for confirmation.

When Cheapy directed my attention to his eQuake warez alert, I posted it on BesMella to support his point of view. There is nothing I'd like better than a copyright-free replacement of the game content, it makes it MUCH easier to promote our beloved game because it isn't illegal. Additionally, you can see for yourself that I defended him in the comments of the post when he was called names.

It is unfortunate that you got the wrong impression.

**Baker** · 03-25-2006, 10:16 PM

I don't know too much about the relationship between you and Cheapalert to know how to interpret it. It was my perception, right or wrong, that the article was made to throw stones at him and some of that did happen.

I think the current state of pak1.pak is incredibly annoying. Older Quake CDs don't install properly on Win XP. Old clients basically don't work. All of this would be solved by ID releasing pak1 -- or --- coming up with some sort of special licensing that would allow the various Quake/Quakeworld communities to continue their work without interefering with ID's ability to still make money off Quake by selling it for consoles, cell phones and the like.

As far as the point of view goes, I don't think I am the only one that has a big problem with things like this:

where basically what is being advocated is "Hey, don't help ID Software make money by buying Quake 4, get your friends to steal Quake instead and play Quakeworld instead. Here, click on 'Get Quake' for your free illegal eQuake download with registered pak1.pak -- the real deal."

That's pretty insulting to ID Software who did things they didn't have to do like release the Quake source code. Truth is, if John Carmack didn't do these sort of things, there would be no more Quake and I don't view that kind of thing as a very nice way to repay him.

**vb-** · 03-25-2006, 11:11 PM

I'm surprised you concluded much at all, given the grand total of the 13 words I wrote, and the fact it is a news post (not the comments/columns/forum) where bias doesn't belong. Perception or not, you were wrong and I corrected you, as I am perfectly entitled to do.

I find the state of Quake annoying too, hence my interest in projects like CheapWorld.

As far as point of view goes, the only thing BesMella advocates is free speech. If you want to promote eQuake, fine. If you want to protest eQuake, that is equally fine. If you want to voice your opinion in anyway, we'd love to hear it.

It's awesome that with Quake, id revolutionised gaming in many ways, including promoting open source modding, starting with the game source and later the engine source. I'm not going to censor people because of that, however, like it or lump it.

**Baker** · 03-25-2006, 11:27 PM

We aren't into editing posts/censorship here either.

I think the eQuake download is a very nice package except for the 1 file that shouldn't be included it. I think the set of tools and other utilities that come with it is a very nice package and very well thought out.

**vb-** · 03-26-2006, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by Baker

We aren't into editing posts/censorship here either.

I'm glad. As for eQuake, I agree - I can only really fault it on the illegality.

**Third** · 03-26-2006, 02:44 AM

In regards to the equake debate i'd say that i am surprised at the amount of people all of a sudden taking a high moral ground against piracy. Can you all honestly say that everything on your PC is completely 100% legal, do you own the original albums to those mp3's that you have on your computer? Furthermore Vb's post is merely linking the site and encouraging discussion on the topic.

There is not like there is a huge wave of people sprialing into the millions to download this, i own a copy of quake and still prefer this download to installing from scratch and stuffing around with the CD i'm sure others are the same. What could the original of quake possibly retail for these days 10dollars? 5? ID software aren't losing millions because of this download and to think people are downloading this instead of playing quake4 is outrageous. If you like the game enough and want to support the authors you will purchase a copy, i purchased an original copy about 1 - 2 years ago even though it was readily available to download.

Just my 2c anyhow

**Canadian*Sniper** · 03-26-2006, 04:23 AM

It's a shame that people can slip through the gaps of copyright so easily. But this can also be faulted at id software for having ONE FILE that

1) can be distributed anywhere
2) has no cd-key check
3) user system checks

so easily. It's a good cause that you're defending but it's also impossible to stop as it's a file that can be disguised anywhere.

**scar3crow** · 03-26-2006, 12:19 PM

id software owns the copyright to the game Quake and its name. Infringing on it is illegal. It doesnt matter its age, how much money id could be potentially losing, or anything else. It is illegal. The argument that we may have other illegal files on our machines is invalid simply because previous crime does not invalidate existing virtue, or simply non-crime. If I steal a cd from a store, but then say you should volunteer at the soup kitchen, that does not make the claim of volunteering any less worthwhile, for it is an objective good. My personal character may be tainted (by the original crime, and the inconsistency) but crimes are still crimes and virtues are still virtues. No matter how many puppies I save, nuns I rape, cows I consume while alive, charities I donate to, or handicapped kids I make fun of, as long as id software holds the copyright to Quake it is theirs.

Quake is an old game. The copyright has not expired. id doesnt profit off of Quake anymore. The copyright has not expired. id does not make it easy to obtain Quake these days. The copyright has not expired.

As long as the copyright is valid, distribution of such content without the authorization of id software can be brought forth in a court of law. I do not know the legality of a variety of these packages people provide, I do not bother with them (I think many of the engine choices and media replacement files are gaudy) as I have my own copy of Quake, purchased, and installed. id software has created the shareware version, a version of the software for you to share with others if you wish so that you may sample the gameplay to decide if you want it. id has since changed their distribution method of the full product, but it is still obtainable on their website, it can still be found on ebay, and I still spot Quake on occasion in retail vendors such as EB and GameStop.

One may fault id software for the lack of copy protection. One may also fault a homeowner for not locking their door, but that does not lessen the fault of thieves who take advantage of such. A drunk girl is still a girl, an unlocked home is still a home, and an old but copyright game is still copyrighted.

BTW - Not all, but the majority of the mp3s on my machine are from albums I have purchased, I rip everything I buy so I can easily listen to it on my machine and keep the CDs in my car. Ive noticed I dont really listen to the ones I dont own (and thus should delete for harddrive space alone) because when I enjoy something that is a purchaseable product, I tend to want to actually own it and support those who have made it - not for the sake of giving them that percentage of the sale, but for saying that their product is worth my money.

Quake is still owned by id software, and until they release it from such legal bindings it will be so regardless of what any of us have done. Now go home and give your Quake CD a hug and thumb through its manual, Ive got 3 of my own and 2 copies of both missionpacks (yes, when my originals got scratched up, I bought replacements, they were hardly expensive, and the third copy of Quake I won in a quaketerminus.com contest).

**CheapAlert** · 03-26-2006, 02:51 PM

also i don't download mp3s either, i just listen to streaming radio

**Baker** · 03-26-2006, 03:59 PM

I use iTunes and buy songs for 99 cents each. I feel better about doing this as well. I am glad such a service exists where music can be purchased at a reasonable price not making me pay a ton for a whole CD that has a lot of things I do not want.

I do have a handful of mp3's that I didn't buy the CD, but I own the cd for about 85%-95% of all my mp3s.

I have a couple of applications I didn't buy, but nothing major and mostly abandonware, but I own almost all of the ones I use. I have bought Quake twice, but I do have the mission packs and I didn't pay for them.

I'm not perfect but I have legitimately purchased just about everything I have.

And I'm not applying for the job of saint, by the way. I am just saying there are people out there that have legitmately acquired most of what they have.

**Mindf!3ldzX** · 03-27-2006, 08:59 AM

in all honesty,I could really care less whether Q1 gains players through legit
purchases via ID Software website (HAH,Yea okay..like this will happen)
or
if they download a full blown version of Q1 from "website A"

Anyone who PLAYS QUAKE 1 should have the same outlook,I'm not expecting ANYONE to PURCHASE Quake1, especially not for 20+ dollar's.
Get realistic people. Quake1's current population consists of probably 99% "Already been here for awhile" players,and a very small (probably NON-EXISTANT)fraction being "Whats Quake,I've never heard of it before" 1%.
Not many people (I cant say no one..) are going to pay ID Software's purchasing price , and are more apt to locate a free solution re-live glory gibbing days of Q1.Like im my situation,I had a HORRIBLY mangled Quake CD,full version,scratched beyond a working install (installs,but has TOTALLY messed up models and other shit like wall textures ,etc etc..)
I have the right to a backup copy,if I didnt own a legit full install,I dont care,I've played Q1 since I was 16,ima obtain that shit at any means required!

This eQuake ' OMG ITS WAREZ ' shit is ridiculous , only being surpassed in gayness by the whole XQuake GPL incident.

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