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  • #16
    Originally posted by Adam View Post
    Good work with model, I can sympathise with the pain involved in lining up pixel art with joints, the way they stretch if you hit a seam wrong.
    Its the reason I picked up a cheap 2nd monitor a couple of weeks back..

    1.(On display1) adjust the texture, save the .png.
    2.(On display2) reload texture in Blender.
    3.>Facepalm< back to step 1.

    What are the limits for making a model run in vanilla Quake?
    If you made a replacement model does it have to be exactly the same poly count as the original or can you, for example, double/triple it without fear?

    Never having made an mp mod, I usually just remove the player model and don't worry about it.

    Did you have any success separating the animations for lower and upper body, ya know, so you can be running one way and pointing your weapon in another?
    To be honest, I can't remember if this is even possible in Quake.
    Thanks! Yeah, there was a lot of back and forth checking for me as well lol. A 2nd monitor wouldn't be a bad idea. Once I had the texture where I liked it though (which is where Wally/QME combo shines), I was able to play with the UVs a bit in Blender to fine-tune some things (like the face...took me quite a while to get that right where I wanted it).

    I don't remember all the limits on a vanilla engine, but I'm pretty sure verts and tris are 1024 and 2048, respectively. The max texture I believe is 512x512 pixels. And I think the length and width of the texture had to be a power-of-2 number (i.e. 8, 16, 32, 64, so on...). So as long as the model doesn't break any limits, any faithful engine should handle it. Otherwise you get an error on launch. A replacement model doesn't have to share any similarities other than the file name and animation frame/sequence for it to work.

    As for separating the upper/lower body...it is possible on DarkPlaces and FTEQW if the model is exported as an IQM and has the accompanying CSQC game logic and the correct frame groups to reference. It's very involved, but I actually do plan on attempting this method with this here model. This was never a possibility with vanilla Quake, not even the method of "glueing" a torso to a set of legs (at least not without some unsavory results...it can be done but it will look pretty messy because you can't set view-client / no-view client entities in vanilla Quake, with the self.weaponmodel being the exception), unless you wanted to dig into the engine code alongside the QC. But CSQC will let you do all these things without modifying the engine (pretty slick).

    What kind of modeling are you doing right now?
    'Replacement Player Models' Project

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    • #17
      So my stupid file hoster is down for the time being...means the download and none of the picture links are working. If it doesn't come back on by tonight, I'm going to switch to a different host. In the meantime, you can email me at [email protected] and I can email the model to you myself.

      Gotta love technology.

      EDIT: Decided I didn't want to wait, if this is already a problem i'm gonna square it away right now. Didn't like that host site anyway.

      I switched to a better file hoster. The link is up and running again, sorry for any inconvenience.
      Last edited by Dutch; 07-01-2016, 05:51 AM.
      'Replacement Player Models' Project

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Dutch View Post
        What kind of modeling are you doing right now?
        Security drones.



        Thanks for the info, it dawned on me while I was reading it that although it would be a good challenge to create a vanilla compatible player model, it would drive me crazy exporting to (vertex mangling) .mdl now.
        I have been spoilt by .md3
        Username : Atomic Robokid on Steam

        Please check out my Quake made things:

        https://www.indiedb.com/games/run-over
        https://adam-freeman.itch.io/hazard
        https://adam-freeman.itch.io/diver
        https://adam-freeman.itch.io/beyond

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        • #19
          Dude those are slick! Nice job! Do you have a thread for your build somewhere? I wanna know more!

          Yeah there is a certain amount of crap you have to deal with with good old MDL models. I like them almost exclusively because it's what I know, and because they still have that 'quakey' feel.

          Even if I export this guy to IQM and do the animation logic, I'm gonna leave him just the way he is...if I were to go all out with 1000s of polys and a huge resolution texture, he just wouldn't fit in the quake universe without overhauling everything else (world textures, items, weapons, monsters, etc.). I just don't have time for that, especially when I'm making zero revenue on this haha
          'Replacement Player Models' Project

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Adam View Post
            What are the limits for making a model run in vanilla Quake?
            If you made a replacement model does it have to be exactly the same poly count as the original or can you, for example, double/triple it without fear?
            Hello Adam,

            Quake and all of its assets, specifications, limits, etc. are well documented.
            It is an old game. So, many people already wrote a lot of documentation about it.

            Why not simply type "mdl specifications" into google and you will find exactly what you was looking for. This one for example.
            If you are creating a model or mod or total convertion for Quake, you should of course first get yourself a picture what you are aiming at. And most important: Look at what has been made already from other modders. You will be suprised what you will find


            Your replacement model does not need to have the exact model properties like original one. Depending on which engine you are using you are even totally free to do whatever you want. Only if you want to make it usable in vanilla engines, you have to be careful and fullfill max. specs. See my comments above.




            Originally posted by Adam View Post
            Did you have any success separating the animations for lower and upper body, ya know, so you can be running one way and pointing your weapon in another?
            To be honest, I can't remember if this is even possible in Quake.
            Yes, this also has been done several times (without CSQC). But you have to search at insideqc.com to find them. That is the place where all the coders are
            Read more below.




            Originally posted by Dutch View Post
            As for separating the upper/lower body...it is possible on DarkPlaces and FTEQW if the model is exported as an IQM and has the accompanying CSQC game logic and the correct frame groups to reference. It's very involved, but I actually do plan on attempting this method with this here model. This was never a possibility with vanilla Quake, not even the method of "glueing" a torso to a set of legs (at least not without some unsavory results...it can be done but it will look pretty messy because you can't set view-client / no-view client entities in vanilla Quake, with the self.weaponmodel being the exception), unless you wanted to dig into the engine code alongside the QC. But CSQC will let you do all these things without modifying the engine (pretty slick).
            It has been done several times without CSQC. There are Urre´s supertorso and the q1md3 project with even 3 body parts. There is also Nahuels md3soldier monster mod and others.

            I know that CSQC can do it extremely well and was more or less made for it, but also without CSQC you will not see/get "unsavory results" like you called it. It looks very good and you can hardly see a mismatch. It depends on how you approach it.

            All the sources of the above mentioned mods are available, so you can read and study them.

            For monsters on the other hand, Armagon was already made out of 2 parts. And when you look at Nahuels soldier mod, it is done out of 3 parts but needs advanced engine extensions.
            Monsters, with their animation frequence of 0.1 sec. are anyhow much easier to control, so you will get wonderful fluent result with that method. There are already several monster mods with splitted body available for Quake.

            Happy coding

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            • #21
              on the topic of having upper & lower body seperated... nahuel actually did this long ago
              http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-mod...aces-only.html

              link in his thread is obviously broken though since it was made almost 4 years ago...
              but here's a copy of the rar: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zkkn8fr3hm...ldier.rar?dl=0

              nahuel included the QC and such all in the rar, so perhaps you can check there how he did it and take part of his code.

              no point in re-inventing the wheel, right?
              .
              are you curious about what all there is out there in terms of HD content for quake?
              > then make sure to check out my 'definitive' HD replacement content thread! <
              everything that is out there for quake and both mission-packs, compiled into one massive thread

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              • #22
                Thanks for the clarification, Seven. What I was mostly considering was on a player model in a vanilla engine. There would be no way to set the legs (or torso) as a viewmodel that the client cannot see, correct? So if the player looks down, there would be some funny-looking legs that don't match up with a torso (since the torso would probably be the player model, which by default is not rendered for the client).

                Or would it be possible to set the player as the head model, and line everything up just right so that the torso and legs don't interfere with the view? Every frame would have to be carefully set with that in mind...at this point I'd rather just use a modern engine and learn to model/code with MD3 or IQM! Haha

                @talisa i remember reading through that thread and checking out the QC, pretty cool stuff on nahuel's part!
                'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                • #23
                  @7
                  Sometimes, I just wanna chat to real people, ya know? Not google stuff.

                  Talking about Quake built things, have you ever clicked any of the pictures in my sig?

                  @Dutch
                  I think in the future, if I stay on my current path, making independent part models will have to be investigated so that I can make some more interesting creatures.
                  Hope you get there before me so I can talk to you about it.
                  Username : Atomic Robokid on Steam

                  Please check out my Quake made things:

                  https://www.indiedb.com/games/run-over
                  https://adam-freeman.itch.io/hazard
                  https://adam-freeman.itch.io/diver
                  https://adam-freeman.itch.io/beyond

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                  • #24
                    @Adam

                    Chances are I probably will, and I'll let you in on everything I find out!
                    'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dutch View Post
                      @Deatmaster Awesome, good to hear! glad you like it man!

                      @particle bat You're gonna have to be more specific. God awful compared to what? A brand new video game character? The entire intention of this model was to stay somewhat true to the original. Best way to do that is using the same 255 color pallet the original used, as well as the resolution. Add a little "constructive" to your criticism, otherwise it's simply an opinion.
                      Well, it would be fine, but it doesn't look good with texture filtering since it just sort of smudges out the details. Since this is a graphical overhaul, I would have at least thought doubling the texture size might have been somewhere on your list. Anyway, the face itself looks like an almost amorphous shape with indents and extrusions, since there is no colour variation at all. Especially from the side, where it seems to almost melt down in a chevron shape.

                      Keeping the textures the same keeps it more faithful, sure, but when has a higher poly model with textures equivalent to something straight out of Test Drive 3 ever looked good?
                      sigpic

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                      • #26
                        Doubling the texture more than doubles the amount of work. Probably closer to quadrupling it. I spent more time texturing than any other part of the project, because modeling geometry, rigging, and animating are a much more straightforward workflow (at least for me). Also, doubling the texture but keeping the original colors looks like garbage. Been down that road a few times and learned the hard way.

                        Long story short, beefing up the texture was more work than I was willing to do, so I took the old school and formula and milked it for what it was worth. I do encourage you or anyone else interested in creating a modern texture for it if you like. My focus is on cranking out more models of comparable detail and getting into the game logic again.

                        I appreciate your comments though, and actually do agree with you to a degree. But there was a point I was not willing to cross as far as details are concerned, because I wanted to get the damn thing done. I'm notorious for starting something simple, complicating it over time, and eventually letting it rot in my hard drive.
                        'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                        • #27
                          Good job!
                          Fórum QuakeBrasil

                          Lots of Quake related stuff


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                          • #28
                            Thanks vegetous!
                            'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                            • #29
                              Quake Guy 2016 is now QuakeSpasm compatible!

                              Download Here: Quake Guy 2016 - QuakeSpasm

                              I have also added this link to the original post.

                              From the included readme.txt:

                              With this latest release, the vertex count has been reduced by trimming some of the more finer details (such as the ribs in the thigh guards and the top of the firearm) to allow for compatibility with QuakeSpasm. The Blender file will read 1332 vertices, however, as an exported MDL model, the vertex count raises to 1982. Apparently, there are some discrepencies present in the export process. Nevertheless, QuakeSpasm is hardcoded to accept all MDL models with less than 2000 actual vertices. Engines more faithful than QuakeSpasm (WinQuake, for instance) will still reject this model.
                              I dug into the QuakeSpasm engine code. Upon seeing the vertex limit had actually been raised to 2000 (from the original 1024) I realized it wouldn't be too difficult to shave a 100 or so vertices.

                              Have fun Quakers!
                              'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                              • #30
                                constructive critique:

                                This really is constructive cause, I think your model is great BUT, upon staring at it for a good while, it occurred to me that the shoulders are too flat, which makes him look bobble headish. If you adjust the shoulders to angle up into the neck a bit it could be an improvement.
                                http://www.nextgenquake.com

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