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  • Flame.mdl/sprite conundrum solved?

    a while ago over on this thread there was a little confusion over the wall torches, their flames in particular.
    I never really thought the problem was entirely solved and was left with a few unanswered questions.
    Well I've been messing about with it recently and have decided to unleash my thoughts and results onto you all (poor you!), who knows, it might even be of help to someone!

    Right. first thins first; Dpmod uses a new flame.mdl model for its torch that does NOT include a 3d flame modelled on.
    It is intended exclusively for use with the flame sprite, and as such, simply removing the sprites will NOT put the old flame back on.

    next; this shot from qrf shows the original flame.mdl (made by id) and is also being used with the flame sprite.
    The model is the classic crude torch and wobbly flame all in one .mdl
    However, being the old model, it also has the old (and very lo-res) skin.

    So, heres the cure; original flame.mdl model + new skin (primevil's and some bump/gloss/luma's from me) + flame sprite = this
    In order to get the classic torch without the sprite (as shown on the left in above pic), simply remove the appropriate torch spr32 file from your progs folder!

    oh yeah, heres the download - WALL TORCHES
    It has the old flame.mdl model in there as well as the skins, so all you have to do is load it!

    enjoy...or not

    all credit to primevil for his original flame.mdl skin...
    Last edited by osjclatchford; 03-16-2011, 04:41 AM.

  • #2
    Ey osjclatchford, ah yes, i have been playing around with PrimeEvils flame for some time. Still not 100% sure which i like more, the original plus sprite, or PrimeEvils flame with sprite, or PrimeEvils without flame and only sprite. The thing is, the original has the wood a little blackened/burning effect on top of it, while PrimeEvils has not, it looks clean. Also if you use PrimeEvils torch without flame but only with sprite you can see that the sprite flame hovers some seconds above the torch so the models position is not 100% accurate, which looks kinda silly in game. I am not a big nitpicker but that just bothers me a little haha.

    Anyway, thanks for the gloss/bump/luma textures, maybe it will convince me more to use PrimeEvils torch.

    Cheers,

    Spin.
    FPS Source Ports

    Comment


    • #3
      funny you should mention the 'hovering' flame but this happens on the dp-torch and it bugs be like crazy, thats what started my experiments in the first place!

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello osjclatchford,

        Thank you for your thread, but I think you still mix up some things.

        First of all,
        the only people who have issues with the flame-model are people who use Rygels pack.
        His pack includes a flame.mdl with no flames. That is why people who use his pack, dont see a flame ontop the torch.
        UNLESS those people start their Quake with "darkplaces.exe -dpmod". (then they will have the sprite-flame ontop)

        For those people who use Rygels pack, and dont want to play with activated dpmod, it is enough to simply delete the flame.mdl inside his pk3.
        Then the original ID1 flame.mdl will be used (this one has a flame ontop the torch)


        Then you write:
        In order to get the classic torch without the sprite (as shown on the left in above pic), simply remove the appropriate torch spr32 file from your progs folder!
        "remove the appropriate torch spr32" ??
        Quake has no torch spr32.
        Again, only dpmod has it and can handle the .spr32 flame-sprite. (reason for it, see description below)
        You will never see the sprite-flame unless you use dpmod´s extensions.



        I would put it this way:
        If you use Rygels pack and want a high res torch with classic flame ontop, simply delete the flame.mdl in Rygels .pk3 and put the debugged flame.mdl model and PrimEvil´s texture in your Quake progs-folder and you will have the High Res torchlight.
        If you want in addition to use the sprite-flame in your Quake, you have to play with "-dpmod" due to its “dpextensions.qc” !

        But be aware that dpmod changes almost everything in Quake. So be careful to use it. I dont recommend it in Single-Player.
        If you only want to use the beautiful sprite-flame from dpmod without using the rest of dpmod modifications,
        you have to write a mod with modified Quake .qc files (= implementing some “dpextensions.qc”-contents to them)


        I hope this clears up some things.

        Kind regards,
        Seven

        PS: In my complete Quake compilation I implemented PrimEvils High Res Torch with additional dpmod sprite-flame.
        Last edited by Seven; 03-16-2011, 02:44 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          yes, seven, this is all based around those running rygels dp-mod, hence me saying; "...first things first; Dpmod uses a new flame.mdl model for its torch..."

          if you are running dpmod with the sprites but want to run the primevil torch without the sprites you DO have to delete the flame sprite itself... otherwise it will show both the torch and the sprite-flame.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello osjclatchford,

            sorry to disturb again but what you just wrote is not quite correct.
            if you are running dpmod with the sprites but want to run the primevil torch without the sprites you DO have to delete the flame sprite itself... otherwise it will show both the torch and the sprite-flame.
            If you run dpmod and delete the spr32 sprite files, your Quake will look like this:




            Maybe it is just a misunderstanding.
            dpmod is LordHavocs modification and has nothing to do with Rygel.
            dpmod has all the modifications/enhancements from LordHavoc inside (also the sprite-flame).
            Therefore it uses a custom progs.dat of course.
            If you use dpmod and delete the files it needs to run, (the sprite files for example), DarkPlaces will create a dummy model (to avoid crashing), which you can see on the above screenshot.
            So simply deleting the sprite does not help.

            Rygels pack (this is not dpmod) was intended to be used together with LordHavocs dpmod.
            I know Rygel (he is german too) and spoke to him many times.
            Rygel wrote in his readme.txt that you have to delete some of the dpmod files and exchange it with some other he provided.
            (this was because dpmod has the weapon moved to the right side and Rygel didnt like it)
            He did NOT include the spr32 sprite files in his pack.
            (but he loved the sprite-flames and mainly therefore wanted to use dpmod)
            He didnt know how to modify the quake .qc files to have the sprite-flames without the necessity to run dpmod itself at that time (back in 2007).

            This is the model included in Rygels pack:


            This is the debugged model, which should be used with PrimEvils High Res texture:


            This is how Quake looks with debugged model + PrimEvil texture + LH´s sprite-flame:



            The big flame-model (flame2.mdl) is also replaced by a sprite-flame (as shown on left side of screen).

            Kind regards,
            Seven
            Last edited by Seven; 03-16-2011, 02:39 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              hmm, I must have one wacky version installed then.
              as my file-path's seem a little 'out' considering all the information at hand.
              Originally posted by Seven View Post
              ...Rygels pack (this is not dpmod) was intended to be used together with LordHavocs dpmod.
              I know Rygel (he is german too) and spoke to him many times.
              Rygel wrote in his readme.txt that you have to delete some of the dpmod files and exchange it with some other he provided.
              (this was because dpmod has the weapon moved to the right side and Rygel didnt like it)
              He did NOT include the spr32 sprite files in his pack.
              (but he loved the sprite-flames and mainly therefore wanted to use dpmod)
              He didnt know how to modify the quake .qc files to have the sprite-flames without the necessity to run dpmod itself at that time (back in 2007)...
              - this distinction, I clearly was unaware of thanks for bring me to light (It explains a lot to me now! LOL!)
              My rig wouldn't run the torch on its own (without sprite) untill I deleted the sprite file.
              Evidently I am using the rygel pack as everything is normal (my weapons are centred etc...)
              Still I use the rygel torches at the min anyway, as i found the model/sprite combination of the other a little jarring to the eye, but I just thought I'd release the gloss etc... too.
              What with my eronious information and your corrections I imagine I've gone and confused matters worse than before now!

              Oh, and while were on the subject, If anyone does know of a better flame sprite for use with the torches I'd really love to know about it, the 'hovering' nature of the current one is a real bugger...

              thanks again
              Latchford
              Last edited by osjclatchford; 03-16-2011, 03:47 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                hi

                ive edited the flametop and bottom spr32

                it has ten textures in the animation

                when you edit the size of the texture it makes the sprite bigger ingame...so if you want a say shorter flame you could modify the ten textures on the flametop.

                i do plan on doing something using the existing flame sprites and reworking them...im thinking of filtering them in photoshop and then making them png and more transparent.

                i think they look not bad right now....and with a little tweaking maybe good

                Comment


                • #9
                  sounds very promising!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by osjclatchford View Post
                    Oh, and while were on the subject, If anyone does know of a better flame sprite for use with the torches I'd really love to know about it, the 'hovering' nature of the current one is a real bugger...
                    You can easily correct the "hovering" with QME if you have a problem with it:
                    Open the flame.mdl model, move it and its frames upwards a little and save it.

                    It is similar to the super-shotgun model. You once wrote in another thread, that you dont like the models position:
                    It is not fully visible in-game.
                    Open it with QME (if it is a md3, convert it to mdl first) and move it (and its frames) to where you want and save it out.

                    Regards,
                    Seven

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks.
                      I'll have to look into this 'QME'.
                      Still, modeling isn't really my thing.
                      Anyway, if there is a better sprite on the way It would still be nice to use, (the current one looks more like a signal flare than a flaming torch!) but i'll take what I can get!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        hey thanx for this osjclatchford.

                        used the model from ruohis before and hated that it had no flame on top of its own.

                        so for playing online i used the original model but it looked cruddy.
                        but now with your next textures it looks lot better

                        still wish the model ruohis made had a flame modelled on top of it though

                        but at least the original model doesnt look so ugly anymore now with your textures
                        .
                        are you curious about what all there is out there in terms of HD content for quake?
                        > then make sure to check out my 'definitive' HD replacement content thread! <
                        everything that is out there for quake and both mission-packs, compiled into one massive thread

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