Cthulhu Head

[MadGypsy]

You know what you should do?

1) get blender, just do it.
2) make sure you have the import script that you need for your file type. You can do this by simply going to file/import and seeing if your file type is in the list.
3) import your model
4) if there is an armature, select it and your model and unbind it
5) make a new simple armature in a basic stand pose and bind it to the model
6) do a touch up weight paint if necessary

7) do whatever it is that you need this for
save

next model:

1) import your model into blender
2) unbind it's armature if necessary
3) open up your other model as a library and import the armature
4) bind the new model to the imported armature

5) do whatever it is that you need to do
6) save

repeat "next model" steps 1 through 6 for every remaining model with compatibility to that armature.

note: it would actually be better to put the armature in the basic stance of the model, then bind it and manipulate the armature back to a stand pose.

I suggested that you unbind the original armature because you may want to save the entire thing back to whatever file type it was. This way, you technically haven't done anything to the original data. Actually, you could even just duplicate the armature if one is included.

[Sza]

Lol, no doubt. Now all you have to do is become a professional game design company and your argument may hold some weight.

I have done some better textures as those from d3 and q4, plus the muzzleflash and the glass windows/mirrors (which d3 and q4 dont have) with a RT distorion/mirror. Is it not enough

@stand pose (Sza's last post) - not as easy as you thought, was it? I want to be clear about something. It's not that I don't want to help you. I know that I will flake out long before I ever finish. So, what's the point? I could say right now "yeah, sure man. I'll pose everything up for you" but then I wont actually do it. Even if I wanted to help you with all of my heart and soul I know I wont finish.

This is what is more realistic. I would tell you i want to help. I would then try to help, and halfway through the first model I would quit out of sheer boredom or possibly frustration. I would then come back to you and tell you that I'm sorry but I (suck at/hate) this and don't want to do it anymore.

So I'm just saving you a lot of future frustration and disappointment.

@stand pose (TeaMonsters last post)

I was thinking of throwing clonemans body on it, subdividing it and giving some sculpting a shot. Really the only thing I feel I should sculpt is the muscle. I can model in my own armor with box modelling techniques

Hmm. It was my fault because i thought that you are a pro. I think i have found a solution ( i think i was even your idea ). I must simple mirror one model and save it. After that i load the original and the mirrored model to move/fix the position of the original body part. It should be enough precise. What do you think?

You know what you should do?

1) get blender, just do it.
2) make sure you have the import script that you need for your file type. You can do this by simply going to file/import and seeing if your file type is in the list.
3) import your model
4) if there is an armature, select it and your model and unbind it
5) make a new simple armature in a basic stand pose and bind it to the model
6) do a touch up weight paint if necessary

7) do whatever it is that you need this for
save

next model:

1) import your model into blender
2) unbind it's armature if necessary
3) open up your other model as a library and import the armature
4) bind the new model to the imported armature

5) do whatever it is that you need to do
6) save

repeat "next model" steps 1 through 6 for every remaining model with compatibility to that armature.

note: it would actually be better to put the armature in the basic stance of the model, then bind it and manipulate the armature back to a stand pose.

I suggested that you unbind the original armature because you may want to save the entire thing back to whatever file type it was. This way, you technically haven't done anything to the original data. Actually, you could even just duplicate the armature if one is included.

Thank You. It helps me a lot because i work now alone and i am probably the only one guy who mod q2e. I will try but i dont know what and where? Un/bind? Armature? Fok i understand nothing I must read today first some tutors! I see that a gfx designer must know 3d modeling programs too and vice versa... otherwise people becoming grey hairs or a heart attack

[Tea Monster]

https://area.autodesk.com/mudcom/basem

Blend Swap
Look for basemesh

Download, sculpt, make it so it is your own.

[MadGypsy]

Download, sculpt, make it so it is your own.

Download, study topology (on the good ones), make your own.

I can't seem to bring myself to ever use someone elses work for more than educational purposes. This is especially true when I write code, model, map & compose music. Unfortunately my graphic art skills are atrocious so, when it comes to something that you would use gimp/photoshop for, I'm usually resigned to creating collages from other peoples work. I'm not really all that happy about that though and the day will eventually come where I attempt to master gimp/photoshop/something similar. Really though, graphic art (via programs) bores the snot out of me and that's why I am not already pretty good.

I remember the last time I opened Gimp. I sat down and told myself "We are gonna learn this" Gimp took it's time loading all my fonts and that 1 minute was just enough for me to tell myself "I really don't care about this." However, I didn't shut it down right away. I stared at the tools, made a mental note of what was available, clicked through all the menus and then shut it down with confidence that if I ever wanted to learn it, it wouldn't be a big deal.

This is why I can't maintain a relationship. I get bored of people as fast or faster than everything else I get bored with, and I refuse to be bored... I lost interest in Gimp within 1 minute of fonts loading. I'm surrounded by people that are in a constant state of loading their vocabulary. (uh, ummm, uh, like, uh). You can almost imagine the circular load graphic on their eyeballs. They should have a little panel on their forehead or something.

[[Connecting to my.brain (loader spinning). Connection established waiting for response from my.brain (loader spinning)]] - "Apple! that's the word I was trying to remember."

lol

Barack Obama: "You didn't build that."
Me: "No. Trust me. I did. Actually I built it 7 times and in as many ways."

Hmm. It was my fault because i thought that you are a pro

If I could get my skills to match my knowledge I might just be a pro. Every time I pick up blender I get better and better even though I have never done anything that you could call practice. I've watched like one gazillion "tutors" and my retention level is exceptional. I also noticed something that I found odd, when I was modelling the head. I'm not even sure how to explain it. While directing edge flow I had this almost ethereal understanding of mesh mechanics. It's like I just "got it" on how everything was going to deform based on my flow. That maybe doesn't sound that exciting, but that is partially due to the fact that I don't have the words to really drive the point home.

I must simple mirror one model and save it. After that i load the original and the mirrored model to move/fix the position of the original body part. It should be enough precise. What do you think?

Either you are having a hard time explaining this or you aren't and it simply doesn't make any sense. Let's work our way from the ground up.

1) you have a model that you want to repose. So the first thing to do period is get a 3d editor and make sure you have capability to import that model.

2) The model may already come with an armature but maybe you don't want to make a mess of the original authors finished results. The easiest thing you can do is duplicate the armature, unbind the model from the original and bind the model to the duplicate. This way you can do whatever you want to that armature and if you need to export the model you can always bind the model back to the original and it will be like you never touched it.

3) If the model does not have an armature, then you should build a simple one. You could probably make a very simple and working armature in about an hour once you understand what you are doing. Really, you should make half of an armature and mirror it, then apply the mirror and add the spine. Armatures are more complicated to name all the bones than they are to build.

4) learn some armature related keyboard shortcuts, like clear rotation and location. Those 2 shortcuts will "pop" your armature back into the pose you started with which is much easier than trying to move/rotate it back into original pose.

binding and unbinding armatures is simple. It's nothing but a menu item. You have to assign the armature as a parent to the mesh in order to deform it and you have to unparent the armature if you don't want it to effect the model any longer.

weight painting: weight painting is a method used to determine the amount of influence that any given bone has over any given part of your mesh. It is color coded. The more weight that you add the redder the paint will become and the more weight you take away the bluer the paint will become. This is used to correct deformation issues on your model. Maybe you bend an arm and the elbow is doing weird things. This would be a case where you (probably) decrease the weight on the elbow so the bone doesn't have so much influence on it.

Do not rely solely on weight painting to fix your issues. You have to make sure that your armature has the proper alignment to your model before you start painting it. Things like arms and legs should have a slight bend to them to give your IK chains hints on how to properly bend.

There is more to consider though and you have to look at your topology in order to determine it. For instance it is common practice to give the forearm mesh a twist from the elbow. This means you have to give your armature a twist from the elbow before you bind it to the model. It becomes a litle more confusing when you actually use a series of bones for the forearm and have a proportional falloff set so you don't encounter such a dramatic twist to your model when rotating the limb. In other words twisting the wrist 22 degrees will not result in the elbow also twisting 22 degrees. Actually for such a small twist maybe the elbow will only turn 4 degrees (or not at all), and that's realistic.

You have a long long way to go if you are going to start attempting armatures, even for something as simple as a rudimentary armature designed for nothing more than creating a static pose. It's worth learning. This stuff isn't rocket science. It's a matter of remembering steps and keeping a list of factoids in your head (like the forearm twist)

Armatures are also rewarding. The first time you bind your mesh to an armature and watch it snap to meet the armatures rotation and location you'll get a little feeling of satisfaction. The small "jerk" that will happen to your model could be likened to it being possessed with life.

Another thing to consider is: If you build an armature, there is no reason why you can't reuse it on all compatible meshes. All you have to do is link to the blend file that contains the armature and import it as a library element. Then you can tweak the armature to fit the new model and bind it.

Some portion of 3d modelling is completely recyclable. Let's take my cloneman for instance. With one little base mesh I have made 3 models that look nothing alike. If I rigged cloneman, there is no reason why that armature couldn't be used for every model that I build up cloneman to be. The same goes for animation. If the armature already knows how to run, jump, swim, whatever - then every model I bind it to will know how to do those things.

Do a lot of work now building recyclable things so you don't have to do a lot of work later. Technically a rigged cloneman could be the basis for every humanoid character in a game and I only have to build a rigged cloneman once.

[Sza]

Thank you very much and sorry for the ot

https://area.autodesk.com/mudcom/basem

Blend Swap
Look for basemesh

Download, sculpt, make it so it is your own.

It will be too much complicated. BTW: MB have already human basemesh and couple others there. I want simple convert the q2 model, add more polys and sculpt it. After that i will bake the surface as a high poly skin for the original models. I have done it already many times and its very easy for me. It will be something like this on the screen. Its a low poly plus a high poly skin.

[MadGypsy]

I'm not worried about OT posts, bro. I'm glad that you guys/girls find a minute to participate in my thread. In reality, every post on this entire site is sitting in a database table that has no clue what the topic is. Topics/Subjects are nothing more than a design to allow humans to find things easier, when in reality, every post is sitting in the same table occupying identically formatted rows.

Plus, your "OT" posts allow me to instigate more interest in this thread by giving me something relative to talk about. In a sense you could even say that the knowledge is exclusive to those that take a minute to participate, even if that participation doesn't extend beyond reading.

I think I've made it clear that I get bored easily. This means my own topic may bore me if I run out of steam. I'm still sick and tired of Cthulhu head for a minute. I will make the changes I said but, I don't intend to do them this week. I opened up my project after writing my last related post, stared at it for maybe 5 minutes and then wrote a bunch of javascript for something completely unrelated.

[Sza]

Yep, your tips can be very helpful not only for me but for the other (big & small) moders too. I am bored too ( my mod ) thats why i wanted to make something new like the skins for all monsters. A small variety.

[Dutch]

Well I just learned a shit-load about armatures. Good stuff Gypsy. That's going to beat the hell out of vertex grouping.

[Tea Monster]

One thing you should be able to do, is to export a copy of your mesh, which will now share the original's UV map. You can then subdivide it a few times so that when your sculpting app gets hold of it, it doesn't turn it to a blob.

Then sculpt it up to your heart's content. Up the poly level so it can hold details well.

When done, your new high poly should have the same UV Coords as the original in game.

Export maps from ZBrush/MudBox and apply to the orignal model in game. You don't need to mess with armatures that way.

If you loose your UV coords on the sculpted mesh, don't panic. A tool like XNormal will be able to bake all maps including the surface colour textures from the high poly sculpt down to the low poly that has the UV coords.

On the previous subject of base meshes. By the time you taffy it out to the shape of your monster and then split the arms and so forth, it won't look anything like the original mesh. After you've sculpted it, you then have to re-topo it to get a decent geometry anyway. Nothing of the original base mesh, except for the maps baked off of it's surface, will be used in 'your' model. Once you've sculpted it to a few levels of detail, you will have changed it utterly to the point where nobody will be able to say "Well, it's not really his is it?" I use one all the time.

Think of it this way. If a guy comes to your house to fix your boiler, does he start digging in your yard to find the ores needed to smelt the alloys to create your new boiler? No. There is no reason to have to re-create the wheel each time you start a new project. As long as the final product has your stamp on it in a conclusive way, then it's yours. Anyway, if you are doing all the models for your mod, you won't want to be wasting any time

I don't want to get into a huge debate about this, but this is how I feel.

[MadGypsy]

I don't want to get into a huge debate about this, but this is how I feel.

lol...on the contrary, I agree with everything you said, but would like to add that, everything you said can be applied to a base mesh that you made. I'm also not really concerned with the "you didn't really make that" argument. For me,using other peoples work as a starting point generally starts with spending time understanding their work first.

I'm not a sculptor, I'm a tweaker. I don't make super high poly stuff so my models generally have some edge optimization in them. Using someone elses work as a base for my homebrew way of modelling is generally a mess. I wind up going over the entire model, anyway. I like to start with a model that I have already "gone over".

[Sza]

Guys i could start from nothing... but it will take too much time! Building a model, animating, and more... i dont want to lose too much time... i have lost already almost 6 years. I am using a very fast method for it where i fix the uv maps at once... its not very professional but its fast and it looks good. I will try a litlle bit with blender first.

I wanted at the begin of my mod to do only textures ... and now? I am adding every time more and more futures Guys but i love q2e very much because in the time i have learned my self to do much better trextures( not only normals but occlusion and specular to... and i have found even my own method to make very good textures using only some paint programs )... to sculpt... and a litlle bit from materials,shaders and more! Try to learn so much things ( music producer and sound fx too ) ! This are things i love to do and thats why i dont really want to learn new things because i feel something like there is no place in my head anymore... idk. I have worked before very much times in a team where every one had own skills and own place... and we have used those for one project. I HAVE NEVER USED TUTORIALS IN MY LIFE BEFORE... but 3d modeling is too hard for me and first time in my life i will probably use a tutorial... I think i will be good in 3d modeling (because i can think 3d??? ) but there are too much foken functions and words which i must learn first. It looks like i must learn my self a new skill [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgv3RX7nVgk]Haaahahahaha[/ame]

[MadGypsy]

@Sza - like 7 or 8 years ago (maybe a little more or less). I decided I wanted to learn 3d modelling. I came across blender and a tutorial for how to completely build a frog - mesh, armature, texture, everything. The tutorial was about an hour long or maybe it was in a pdf and it just took me about an hour. By the end of that hour I had learned all the core functions that I would use over and over for every model I ever build.

Of course, I didn't learn them all in an hour but by the end of the frog I was making stuff in blender with no tutorials. This was until I learned about proper topology, then I watched a retarded amount of tutorials.

I'm straying. The point I want to make is: If you just find some beginner tutorial that goes from some A to a more distant Z you could understand blender in just the matter of an hour or two. From there you only need to take the tutorials that are relevant to what you want to do. You don't seem to want to make your own meshes but you have some use for possibly posing, unwrapping, lighting, materials, etc. So, focus on those things in order to get your project done.

Blender is not really all that complicated. Basically ever possibility is categorized in a collapsible pane that is right next to your 3d view window. If you want to do something that does not include hand-guided manipulation or addition to the mesh, UV's or armature then, you probably need to go to the collapsible pane to accomplish it.

[bluntz]

Get involved,Feed your head. Join up for the next Blender movie project
Gooseberry.
Gooseberry Cloudfunding Campaign
If actual involvement is too much outside your learning commitment goal,then have a look at this DVD for 25 euro.You can find the Blenderella tuts on youtube that give in depth commentary throughout the workup.
http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/prod...35d50591de175f
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=375LkBKnXy0[/ame]

[Tea Monster]

There are a couple of different ways of handling that.

If you are a stickler for going your own way to make your own character, you can look up 'male model T pose' in Google and get some links to images that you can use as a background image in your modelling app to model the figure. That way you can line up the verts with the pixels and you can get something serviceable pretty quickly.

There is one here: male figure in T-Pose

Are you using a 3D app at the moment Sza?

[Sza]

@MG i will try, but i am not sure if it will take for me 2 or 3 hours.

@Bluntz thank you but i will be a lucky guy if i could do a simple cube or a minecraft model first

There are a couple of different ways of handling that.

If you are a stickler for going your own way to make your own character, you can look up 'male model T pose' in Google and get some links to images that you can use as a background image in your modelling app to model the figure. That way you can line up the verts with the pixels and you can get something serviceable pretty quickly.

There is one here: male figure in T-Pose

Are you using a 3D app at the moment Sza?

Yep, its not bad idea too. No i dont have any 3d app. I think i could make it using the original MB figure. Some of the q2 models having a couple different arms but even that will be no problem. There is many different ways/methods to do it fast and two or three of it are very fast.

I think you mean i shoul put a simple picture there like this one. The sceenshot is not perfect in the middle of the screen but i wanted to show you a small example. I could make 3 or more screens in mb. I will need a grid and mirror for the xyz. The q2 models are "very" low poly so it should be no problem to center the whole body in the korrect postion. I know how to paint weights and how to move parts in different positions and angle. Your idea could be even pix precise. Something like a magnetic grid could be very bad ass! May be MB have a same function as gimp? I think i should place in the screens some extra small points in the middle of every body part? Fok man this is the best solution till now. I can do even screens from q2 monster models and mirror it in gimp and after that it will be the perfect base for every model!

@Bluntz it was not exactly what i have searched but it brought me the final and fast solution for the problem.

Thank You MG, TM & Bluntz.