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Arcane Dimensions -HD overhaul-

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  • Hello z1n,
    i am sure that some of the AD particle-effects are models, not particle effects.
    You won't be able to change them to some shiny hd-particles unless you replace their models or write your own AD mod. You are right if you say that the pics are too small. it could also be, that you use an effectinfo.txt which has its particle definitions from darkplaces, not fte. For example DP uses "color", but fte "rgb" to define the color of a particle. Those two engines have their differences and it needs some converting, a thing, that i will have to do soon for a mod i'm working on. Shouldn't be too hard.

    About the disappearing ammo & health models: It's worth a try to delete the shader folder before replacing them Edit: if there is one. Also, do your replacements and the AD ammorboxes have the same file names and are in the same folders? I don't know a thing about ADs internal structures, just guessing here.

    About your idea to offer an AD package similar to the Epsilon-mod: Be careful and ask for permission from the respective authors before you do that. If they decline don't do it. And even if everybody allows you to use their work, be ready to take some fire for it. As an alternative you could write a manual on how people can make use of the AD hd packs and the fte engine, how to make it all work.

    Greetings.
    TKJ
    I once was a Ranger like you. But then i took a rocket to the knee.
    My little gore mod : http://quakeone.com/forum/quake-mod-...76473-gore-mod

    Comment


    • yeah i thought about deleting the files in ad and simply renaming the new files and pasting them in, but i'm not sure they would work. won't hurt to try it though, but i was really hoping i could just stack pk3's. looks like there will be surgery being done. i figured the only people who would be upset about it are the ones that are stuck in the past and have a marked disdain for hd modders and people with new ideas, i.e. the curmudgeons. i actually emailed simon about a different map altogether for a quake 3 build i was doing, but i haven't heard anything from him. seeing as to how displeased i am with the choice of low res textures i doubt he'd be too motivated to to help lol.. or i hope not anyway.
      the whole thing has been really frustrating, i must have made more than 60 gigs worth of test builds so far, just starting over each time, for days on end, trying to slap[ together something that works while being a noob to quake 1 modding in the process, learning as i go.
      i know 100% exactly precisely what i want, just trying to make it absolutely perfect.

      Comment


      • The files you want to replace must be in similar named folder structures and have the same file format and name. You can stack pk3s, if you give them ongoing numbers at the end (pak0.pk3, pak01.pk3 and so on). Maybe you want to read a thing or two about the whole quake modding stuff before you start over the next time. What you have in mind is also a not a mod or a built but a compilation of other peoples work. Compiling and reuploading a bunch of other peoples babys without their permission is not a good idea.

        i figured the only people who would be upset about it are the ones that are stuck in the past and have a marked disdain for hd modders and people with new ideas, i.e. the curmudgeons.
        About that: Son. Don't prejudge people. There are a lot of people who like the hd stuff, others don't or do not have a machine to run the hd textures. There's nothing retarded in don't liking hd textures. And no reason to look down on them, even if they say they don't like the idea of an AD hd-package. And don't mind about simon not answearing, just accept it. Your request has been declined, probably even just because his inbox is overflowing with a lot of mail. Maybe he answears in a week, when he clens out his inbox, who knows?

        Good luck for your idea.
        But don't step into that big bowel full of shit in front of you.
        That's well meant :-)
        I once was a Ranger like you. But then i took a rocket to the knee.
        My little gore mod : http://quakeone.com/forum/quake-mod-...76473-gore-mod

        Comment


        • thanks for the input on stacking pk3's, and i'm not irritated with simon i figured he'd be plenty busy with things that actually matter lol
          about the curmudgeons, i've actually ran into people who fit the description however i didn't mean to group everyone in the same boat was just faster to generalize.
          i guess i'm gonna have to edit the files, it's weird that nobody has cared enough to fix the hd pickups but i suppose i'll have a go at it and see what i can do. of course with the epsilon build the puzzle is already solved, except that it doesn't like map jam9 and other maps that much. basically if i want to play anything outside of what's included in the epsilon pack it's going to take surgery.
          as for the ftequake build, it does work, but i can't get it to look like epsilon which imho is the current gold standard as far as visual aesthetic is concerned. i found 3 missionpack files for epsilon and i've never played the mission packs but they look pretty cool, so i'm just gonna play those for a while to take my mind off of this and come back to it when my rage has settled.

          Comment


          • Recently, I have spent a LOT of time reviewing a bunch of quake stuff and I think I understand why there is a sizable group of people that hate the Quake 1 HD stuff. In my not very humble opinion it's much like trying to bling out a pinto. No matter what you do it's still a pinto and it's never going to look or run like a porsche. If anything, the more you try to bling out your pinto the sillier it will become.... and to stick with my little metaphor, all the money and time you spend blinging out your pinto could be spent on a car that is already nice or at least designed to have advanced style.

            All that being said, I have respect for all the HD modders and their hard work but you can shoot me the day Epsilon is considered "the gold standard" for Quake graphics. The gold standard for quake graphics is probably something like vanilla AD. That team provided arguably the best quake mod to date (aesthetically and functionally) and they didn't rely on a single bit of bling to do it. This becomes harder to argue when you realize that adding HD content to AD doesn't actually add anything to AD. It actually detracts from one of the most major features of quake...the ambiance.
            http://www.nextgenquake.com

            Comment


            • MadGypsy , can one read those reviews somewhere? And what are they about?
              I once was a Ranger like you. But then i took a rocket to the knee.
              My little gore mod : http://quakeone.com/forum/quake-mod-...76473-gore-mod

              Comment


              • Well, I didn't "read" reviews. I read/watched and reviewed on my own. I am the reviewer. If you would like to do what I did simply go to youtube/google and search

                (original) Quake (1) Epsilon
                (original) Quake (1) Mods
                (original) Quake (1) Engines
                ...

                You get the idea...and things in parens are alternate search term parts that I used

                I have watched something like 200 videos and come to my own conclusion about some things, learned some new things, been surprised about some things and fell asleep as I was monotonously told a bunch of stuff I already know. My overall opinion is that there is VERY little HD stuff that actually looks good in game. I understand that this is partly because most people don't know how to properly adjust their settings. What you end up with is whacky super details with the kitchen sink of shine/shadow and glow on rudimentary shapes and it looks fuckin terrible. HD goes from High Def to Horrendous Display. There is another side though. IMO even if you adjust everything as to make all this HD stuff look really nice it's not Quake anymore. The worlds are not designed to support "fancy clothes". Many textures get sliced in an ugly way as the geometry turns some corner. Everything is sticking out and has a lot of depth and then gets abruptly cut off where you would expect the texture to finish that repetition. With Low Def it's not very noticeable or maybe just easier to accept. With High Def it makes it look like the mapper did a shitty job. I'm all for some High Def graphics I just don't think Quake wants them or can use them properly. It all starts looking like a really cheap toy at some point.

                I think the reason Talisas textures look really nice is because they are almost high def but her images don't seem to have the kitchen sink of bling thrown in. For instance I don't see any normals or gloss being used and if it is it must be turned way down to be very subtle. This lets the geometry be rudimentary which is what it is and what it needs to be. Quake has always been about shadows....not light. Light in quake is barely more than so you can see and plays no part in exaggerating materials of the map.

                Edit: I think that's the problem. HD stuff attempts to make drama out of every texture (Im talking about gloss, norms, etc). Whereas actual quake did not rely on this at all. The beauty came from the ambiance that was created by NOT doing this and the game assets were designed to live in this dark, muddy, low poly world. Consider FTE for a moment. I love FTE and Spike and would never say something negative about either so, my next statement is just true or at least according to my eyes. FTE comes with this gorgeous water shader and it looks fucking stupid in Quake. It's the cleanest most beautiful water you have ever seen and it's plopped in "toxic land". Everything else in Quake is dirty and definitely not something you want to be rubbing all over yourself and then out of nowhere the most pure, crystal clear water you have ever seen. How does this go together? Even quake's stock "clean water" did not give the impression it was something you wanted to swim in. I get it, spike is a developer and he is developing modern things. That's great! That water is amazing. It just doesn't belong in any Quake 1 I have ever played but it will be the first thing someone turns on when they use that engine.

                I have been here a long time. I watched Quake go through it's bling phase and I'm watching again as engines like Quakespasm don't aspire at all to provide these options. I'm seeing developers like sock & company and games like Devil's Daggers (which isn't even a quake mod) maintaining that old-school quake feel. This is because pulling that stuff off with quality creates amazing content that most modern games are not providing. We could go make another CS map and you'll be bored with it in 30 minutes but play some DM in it for the next 2 months cause you are bored with the other maps too. We could alternately go make a fairly vanilla quake map and it will be played for infinity. I've seen people ask/beg to play someone's unfinished map with the mapper telling them flat out that it isn't good at all. They don't care, cause it's Quake.
                Last edited by MadGypsy; 12-08-2017, 06:49 PM.
                http://www.nextgenquake.com

                Comment


                • High definition textures an realtime lights compliment detailed structures very well, which quake doesn't have much in its levels, at least not the right kind, thats right. And the usual mesh props like furniture are also mostly absent. I share your view of things. A week ago i made a particle effect set with a resolution of 256x256 per particle. The effect ingame was, for itself, relative sharp and nice to look at but even in combination with highdef textures it looked flat, cheap and unbelievable.

                  I think it also is a generation thing. A lot of Quakers are 30+ and saw the resolutions rise from +/- 320x240 (oh glory times) to 8000x8000 plus x. Even something really nice like TESIV Oblivion is now a nostalgic thing, so the aesthetics are different for younger people, i think. They might not see what older people see if they look at Quake with fancy shining bling. When i started to play Quake again i used dem hoighdeaf texpacks too, meanwhile i switch between low and highres, as i feel. I think with the right lightning and softer shadows quake CAN look good with bigger textures, sometimes even nicer than before, but that's a completely subjective view.

                  Hm... I wish tenebrae would run on windows 7, i really liked how it looked. If it comes to lightning it hit the right mood of Quake for my taste. It also had a texture pack somewhere, i think. If i look at some screenshots from that engine i really dig it.

                  A guy mailed me avout a lowres normal & parallax texture pack he did and i'm really eager to try it. Maybe he would even release it, i got to ask him about it.

                  About the watershader: FTE provides new water filter systems and therefore converts the poluted semi-acidic water into something drinkable ;-)
                  I once was a Ranger like you. But then i took a rocket to the knee.
                  My little gore mod : http://quakeone.com/forum/quake-mod-...76473-gore-mod

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by z1n View Post
                    I do find it quite baffling and a bit infuriating that such an awesome mapper who makes some of the absolute best maps I've ever seen would insist, this day & age, on building the mod using low res hard to look at textures when all the hd options are out there, especially since it unarguably makes the game look a lot better, and brings us into the now, instead of being mired in the limitations of yesteryear. I can understand some people's enthusiasm for grainy, low res "old game" appeal however it would have made a lot more sense to simply just make that an option instead of spending countless hours trying to make it proper. No offense to the mapper but it really doesn't make sense to me that if you're going to spend the time to build something and use textures to use low res ones instead of simply just using the hd ones, but I don't map, so perhaps I'm missing some technical limitations, which again I don't understand since you can edit the hd stuff in afterwards it would make me think that was possible from the original building phase.
                    AD for me is about the consistency of the artwork, it was designed to be balanced visually across all assets and to work with the existing Quake assets. I wanted the mod to feel likes its got the original Quake ambience and like it could be part of the original Quake universe. I am well aware that many people want different ways to play Quake and that is why I went to a lot of effort to make sure all the maps and assets work with DP/FTE. The mod even switches around some of the visuals based on what engine the player is using and tries to bring some eye candy to the particle system.

                    I want to state for the record, I have nothing against HD packs or the people who create them. Infact I think its awesome that people spend their time creating different visuals of the AD mod. I certainly don't use any HD assets, but I do appreciate the time and effort that goes into creating them. The whole Vanilla/HD argument about which is better that constantly goes on in the Quake community is just pointless and rather insulting.

                    Thanks everyone in this thread (especially Talisa), its always cool to see what everyone is up to and I am glad so many people are still enjoying the AD mod after all this time. So please stop thinking I disapprove of HD assets, I don't!

                    What someone does with their own version of Quake is their own business!

                    Comment


                    • "AD for me is about the consistency of the artwork, it was designed to be balanced visually across all assets and to work with the existing Quake assets. I wanted the mod to feel likes its got the original Quake ambience and like it could be part of the original Quake universe."

                      Nailed it.

                      Making an asset that goes beyond the original look and feel of the game leads down a treacherous road. All of a sudden, nothing in the game looks like it belongs next to your high-res high-poly model/texture/whatever. You soon find yourself redoing assets that normally you would have left alone.

                      On top of that, a decent Quake texture can be made in a matter of minutes, if the creator has some experience under his belt. Making a beautiful 2048x2048 RGB-based multi-mapped texture takes considerably longer, I don't care who you are. Personally, I'd rather see Sock spend his time making quality maps than making unnecessary artwork. Folks like talisa are hard at work converting Sock's world into HD, which I think is a win-win. Sock and crew stay focused on what draws the faithful crowd to the mod, and talisa brings in the people that like the fancy stuff.

                      I have played and replayed AD maps over and over. I didn't have this much fun with Quake when it was brand new. There's not a game on the market that can compete with the quality and fun they are producing.

                      Proof that graphics don't trump gameplay.
                      Last edited by Dutch; 12-09-2017, 11:56 PM.
                      'Replacement Player Models' Project

                      Comment


                      • Ty for your post talisa but these links don't work plz reupload them:

                        AD_SEPULCHER HD TEXTURES
                        AD_DM1 HD-TEX
                        AD_SCASTLE HD-TEX
                        BV PLAYER-SKINS

                        many thanks

                        Comment


                        • Blood Vengeance is the person who made those packs

                          those are not my files, BV would have to provide new links
                          .
                          are you curious about what all there is out there in terms of HD content for quake?
                          > then make sure to check out my 'definitive' HD replacement content thread! <
                          everything that is out there for quake and both mission-packs, compiled into one massive thread

                          Comment


                          • well guys, after calming myself down and focusing on building with the fte/quakeworld engine, i've come to understand and appreciate why so many people run their maps in software mode.
                            i know this sounds like a 180 from my previous position, but i was being very biased against low res textures, i guess you'd call that normal mode, or one step up from software. out of my ignorance i lumped software in with low res blurry "brushed" textures (idk what they're called) and overlooked it.
                            but i've recently concluded that software rendered maps look really good in comparison to low res textures and i see why it's apparently the standard thing to do in the video reviews. yes it looks "pixely" but that's really only if you're up close to an item, but this mode seems to show off all the original attributes of the map as it was written, so you know what you're getting right away. and i'm not gonna lie, being 38 it does take me back to nov 2001, sitting at my battlestation all night until 5am on my cryrix 220mhz super socket 7 build (i actually had to swap bios chips from a baby atx board to get it running) with winamp running in the background playing a mix of cydonia, nin quake etc in the background while i played vanilla quake 1 at 640x480 on a 17" crt through an ati rage with no mouse, only a keyboard (i couldn't get windows 98 or the bios to see my mouse no matter how many mice and adapters i threw at it)


                            sorry to have raged so hard about these issues, and i hope i haven't offended anyone. i think it was more out of frustration from inexperience and things not working the way i envision they should. i've been trying to get something to work the way i want it for a long time now and all this constant frustration is taking it's toll on my nerves i've become increasingy irritable, short breathed, and sleep deprived, just trying to make something work that my brain is telling me shouldn't be this difficult. i'm not even writing code, just simply trying to get this shit working right.

                            so i've decided to stop trying to make everything work with epsilon, as it seems things that work with epsilon are epsilon-specific.
                            when i try to load an outside map, such as temple of the thousand faced moon, it just won't load. says something about rain or whatever, but
                            i don't think i should have to go digging around and deleting things just to simply make a map load that loads just fine with other builds.

                            i expressed irritation that sock didn't write ad in hd from the start.. that frustration couldn't be any more misplaced. the real issue is that the models in the mod seem to be overwriting the ones i have installed, for example i have an hd weapons pack in my id1 folder that allows the weapons to show up as hd in software mode in normal maps. however, when i load ad, the only item that is hd is the single shotgun, while everything else defaults to low res textures. i'm going to try to figure that out asap, as it seems i will still have to edit the mod to make rygels hd weps show up. also if you're trying to build for max hd, then the non hd items will present an issue as your hd versions in your id1 folder will be overwritten by the low res version.

                            basically where i'm at now is trying to do a software build with full lighting and haze's full particle pack, allowing me to have full particles and lighting and hd weps and custom hud options on top of software rendered maps but i'm using ftequake which is a version of the quakeworld engine and supposed to be the
                            best for using quake injector and supposedly has a hud editor, although when i type what you're fucking supposed to which is /hud_editor and nothing happens, which is annoying, meaning i'm going to have to solve a puzzle to make it do what it says it's supposed to do out of the box once you dow hat it says and install the mods downloadable from within the menu.

                            another extreme annoyance is the hud gets placed below the screen when running in software mode, and if you try to adjust it with the - and + it will push the hud out of the screen entirely. seems like a really fucking stupid idea and i can't see how anyone would ever want that ever.
                            the hud needs to be on top of the screen, not in a dead zone below it. so i'm going to have to fix that as well.
                            also if you want to use the particles you've gotta install the configs but you've also gotta use the ugly menu that comes with afterquake.
                            once you install all the stuff it keeps defaulting to graphic settings that aren't the ones you saved. every damn time.
                            if you wanna go back to the nice menu and uninstall the new menu then it takes away your ability to select which particles you want from the menu and even deletes those configs

                            graphics wise with my level of antialiasing everything looks great, so there's no steppy edges on anything and all my lines are perfect.
                            i've also noticed a lot of players running hd weps on top of software textures, which i also like and am doing.
                            furthermore i got hd water to be rendered by software mode which looks surprisingly good (now have to figure out how i did that again)
                            all of afterquake's fancy particles seem to work on top of software mode, and the lighting works fine as well.
                            considering this i have all the tools i need to do a pretty rad and graphically intensive software build, which i've decided to stick to.
                            it's also a lot easier not having to worry about compatibility issues.

                            even though it's limited to only opengl i would be using darkplaces since the hud is where it needs to be by default and seems to be one of the most modded-for engines out there, but i cannot figure out how to get it to run in software mode, as there are no options made obvious in the menu, unless it's hidden in a sub menu. i see a lot of guys in the videos running darkplaces in software mode, so that doesn't make sense. i sincerely hope you don't have to bust out the terminal and the config file for something
                            like that which should be right there in the menu. maybe i'm just overlooking something obvious and someone here will tell me what i need to do.



                            Last edited by z1n; 12-11-2017, 04:54 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 60chi View Post
                              Ty for your post talisa but these links don't work plz reupload them:

                              AD_SEPULCHER HD TEXTURES
                              AD_DM1 HD-TEX
                              AD_SCASTLE HD-TEX
                              BV PLAYER-SKINS

                              many thanks
                              found this on page 8, the rest are hidden through this thread you'll just have to look for them, i've downloaded almost every single file found here.

                              AD_SEPULCHER
                              https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5bRWgbLOOrwTXF3dEVCSENfMXM[/url]



                              Comment


                              • i do have my own quake track i wrote a while ago that i'll contribute if anyone is interested. it's definitely dark and quakey.

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