In the Shadows

[sock]

Thanks baker, that map was certainly a lot of fun to create and I think it did a lot of interesting things that have not been seen together before. Unfortunately I got mixed reactions when it was released, some places were like meh while others really had fun.

@gb, there are a few special events in every map but I did not want to show any of these in the video's. These events are 'locked in' events where the player does something different to the normal gameplay, probably a better description is a scripted encounter. They are optional and are linked to the story in some way so the player can get a better sense of what happened (history clues) to the place.

The centerprints fall into two categories, the first during the tutorial section which the player can ignore if they want and just walk away. Once the player has the amulet of shadows, the next map load will automatically give the player the crossbow if they have the amulet. The bottles of poison are limited per map because they are so powerful, they will have to be found and most likely be hidden in secret areas. I think people should be handheld as much as possible during tutorials otherwise it could lead to unnecessary frustration.

The second category for the centerprints is the books, they are completely optional and can be ignored if the player does not want to know any of the background story. Unfortunately the centerprint solution I have implemented is not fully supported on all engines so that will surely upset a few people. I highly recommend that if someone wants to enjoy the books they use the new mark V or older Fitz engine.

@MadGypsy, the field of view for the monsters is split into 3 zones around the circumference of a circle. if 0 is forward, the front cone is 315-45 (90 degree's), the sides are 225-315 / 45-135 and the back is 135-225. The monsters see really well forward but have problems with stuff to the side, sort of like human eyes where the side vision is fuzzy and not very precise. If the player stands behind the monsters for too long, they will turn around, they can smell the player if you are too close! hehe

One thing I will probably change is the distance at which the eye appears so the player has more green status on the eye. At the moment it goes from green to red really fast so I will tweak that more so it is more subtle. This will always be a tricky thing to get right because the player movement in quake is really fast and I don't want the player to get too close to monsters otherwise it will feel odd. If you want a visual understanding of the detection radius look at the first video, the floor design shows the distances and angles. The special ability of the amulet is invisibility so it may feel strange at first that you can wander around without being seen but I did not want to limit the player to just using shadows like Thief.

The maps will be setup that you can complete them without a single kill or being discovered, currently there is no prize or reward for this but I will try to think of something. In the second video I show the player getting through a tight corridor using stealth alcoves to bypass the guards. These places will have to be discovered and they are designed for the advance mode of stealth, avoidance.

re: if you get spotted you will not survive?
Well you can survive, you have to run and hide for 5 seconds, I showed this in the first video. The second video shows what happens if you don't hide, the monsters will do crazy amounts of damage. This can be tricky if there is no where to hide (new area or no space cleared). The trick to stealth is always knowing where you can go if things go wrong, you have got to plan ahead and have an escape plan. There are plenty of twists and turns to the maps and once you have not been spotted for 5 seconds then you are free to sneak around again. The monsters will keep hunting the player for a while and eventually go back to what they were doing before.

re: It seems like a dynamic/living puzzle and I LOVE puzzles, especially ones where the solution is not static.

This is certainly the direction the maps will be going, all the monsters are doing something, looking around, checking their weapons, patrolling the place or hunting down the player! Working out how to distract large groups of monsters can certainly be a puzzle because they do not stay distracted for very long and all have different distances at which they notice things. Plus there is the random chance that when returning to the previous activity they will do different patrols.

[gdiddy62]

Just now checked this out.


Awesome work!

[golden_boy]

I would keep centerprints to a minimum because they're basically telling the player directly what to do. It is often interesting to find out half the goodies yourself while you actually play. But yes, if it's only a tutorial area at the beginning, then it's palatable (for most people).

It depends on the style of the game.

[MadGypsy]

It seems like a lot of times you should definitely be in the FOV, but the enemy still does not fully see you. Is this intentional? If so, why? It's just my opinion, but wouldn't it be more challenging if being "spotted" was more realistic?

It seems like you could stand right next to an enemy and they would be oblivious to your presence.

Do you intend to potentially add a "Metal Gear" mode where you have to finish a level without being spotted at all? Is it already like that with the twist that if you get spotted you will not survive? Maybe a short amount of time to eliminate the enemy that spotted you before more arrive? Meh, I could rattle off stealth possibilities all day.

Sorry for so many questions. Your mod has piqued my interest.

Regardless of my opinions and questions, you are doing a great job. I don't play Quake, but i would play this. It seems like a dynamic/living puzzle and I LOVE puzzles, especially ones where the solution is not static.


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My only additional ideas are to minimize the amount of centerprints, and to add some more interesting gameplay elements, but the latter might be outside the scope of this mod.

Why would you limit the centerprints? I am guessing they were happening in a "tutorial" room as each step introduced you to another possibility of gameplay. How else could the possibility be explained?

[golden_boy]

My only additional ideas are to minimize the amount of centerprints, and to add some more interesting gameplay elements, but the latter might be outside the scope of this mod. It looks a little like Quake with stealth in video #2, but that's probably intentional since you say there is a vanilla mode as well.

The central gameplay mechanic seems to work well.

It could almost be straight from the 90s (in a good way). The book stuff is reminescent of Hexen 2.

[bluntz]

Yes it's obvious to me this guy is a force.I was rocked by his use of the all seeing eye in his mechanics.Somebody grab this guy a chair!

[Baker]

For anyone who isn't familiar with Sock, lemme tell you this guy is so talented on several fronts that he has his own gravitation field (Q3 maps, textures sets like one of the ones in use in Nexuiz and some you may have seen in Q1 maps and that doesn't even scratch the surface).

[Welcome to the QuakeOne forums, Sock ]

[sock]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Sorry to disappoint anyone with the lack of something to play, but this is a WIP thing, still got loads of things to do yet. I just wanted to let people know what was going on with the project and to see if anyone has any extra ideas.

@seven, all the personal project maps on my site are Q3, some are indeed crazy detail, they are just concept things to have fun with architecture and new texture sets.

@syluxman2803, the axe's extra ability (backstab) is only linked to the amulet of shadows (first video for more info). It is really the level 1 weapon because you need the crossbow for distraction and poison. In vanilla mode the map plays just like normal quake with all the weapons/ammo etc. The monsters play the same in both modes using path finding to get around and hunting the player down if they cannot see them.

[MadGypsy]

Love it!

[golden_boy]

Very nice Sock.

[Syluxguy28O3]

looking good!
a question though, since stealth is involved, will the axe play a bigger part in gameplay, as a means of silent kills?

[=peg=]

Wow, great looking innovative stuff! Nice work sock! Gonna play this over the weekend

edit: or at least drool over the pics (just noticed it's still a work in progress )

[Seven]

Hello sock,

I am really impressed by the mod you are working on.
While watching your clips I noticed your high skills in modeling, mapping, coding and using the right elements for your idea.
It really reminds me very much of Thief series (as you mentioned).
Your map structures and ideas are simply wonderful !

Thank you very much for presenting your WIP mod here.

While browsing through your website I also saw what amazing maps and mods you made for Q3:A and SIN.
The Q3:A map "The Edge of Forever" is looking absolutely great !
I am very sure that we will see great things from you.

Double Thumbs up from me.
And the best: we both seem to like the same kind of animals...


EDITED: Browsing also through your other Q3 maps it is clear to see that you are a great architecture with many organic influences.
I have never seen anything like this before.
Are these really Q3 maps ? They are unbelieveable detailed !