Authentic Model Improvement

[osjclatchford]

Yeah, TM is a godsend to this project. I must just take this opportunity to say a huge thanks to Teamonster for his contributions to this so far.
His models have allowed us to hope for more than just relying on bits and bobs scavanged from here and there with a few minor edits and new skins from me on them.
don't wanna jinx it but based on how dead the duke3d scene is and the absolute awesome success he's had remodelling shub and the keycards, the enviro and wet suits and the apparent ease he's had altering existing models, like the scrag. I'd say he must be having a good time at it!
lets hope he's enjoying it enough to continue.
I know I am.
Im really surprised how much I've learnt in such a short time doing work for this project. and, dispite how egotistical it may sound, I think it shows in in the work ive done more recently. luckily Im an obbsessive compulsive, and with things like this (well, in all things tbh) I tend to get really passionate about a project and don't let up untill Ive exhausted all means and options within my skillset and existing knowledge.

the torches you have been previously using match those in the 'debugged' model pack so perhaps thats where you got them from originally?


as for the supershotgun pick-up remodel.
you've already got one. deware's one if I'm not mistaken. (*edit* just checked it. it is. it has the little doodle on the skin that always makes me laugh, recognise that anywhere)

the file g_shot2.mdl doesnt and never has existed in id1.
g_shot.mdl IS the supershotgun world model.

the single-shotgun has no world model (outside of ad anyway) so the guys at id named the supershotgun world model g_shot.mdl not g_shot2.mdl because as far as they were concerned, its the [i]only[/] shotgun world model.
confusing? yes.
but kinda logical? I suppose...

I personally would have named it g_shot2.mdl so its clear it goes with v_shot2.mdl not with v_shot.mdl... a bit of a mess if you ask me...

[NightFright]

We are still kinda missing a remake of the Double Shotgun world model (g_shot.mdl), if that's actually needed. Other than that, we are done with ID1, indeed.

I am now waiting for TM's take on the addon models, provided he can come up with anything, then it's time for another release. After that, I think there won't be anything for a really long time - unless TM is on a modelling spree and wants to single-handedly take on all the pending addon models all by himself. Wouldn't object to that, but well... xD

As for the torches, I guess there was something I didn't see. We also had some others in the pack already, don't ask me where they came from and which visible advantage they had over the originals...

--------------

A comprehensive to-do list for the addons would look as follows (only listing those models that would really profit from a remake):

Original Quake:
- Vore: remove titties from existing replacement and add idle animation

Scourge of Armagon:
- Player: Player with Mjolnir (playham.mdl) *
- Enemies: Centroid (scor.mdl), Gremlin (grem.mdl/h_grem.mdl)
- Boss: Armagon (armabody.mdl/armalegs.mdl)
- Items: Empathy Shield (empathy.mdl)

Dissolution of Eternity:
- Player: Player with CTF skin (player.mdl) *
- Enemies: Minotaur statue (hknight.mdl/h_hellkn.mdl)**, Wrath (wrath.mdl/wrthgib1-3.mdl), Zombie (zombie.mdl)**
- Bosses: Guardians (morph_az.mdl/morph_eg.mdl/morph_gr.mdl)***, Hephaestus (lavaman.mdl) ****, Mummy (mummy.mdl)**, Overlord (s_wrath.mdl/s_wrtgb1-3.mdl)
- Items: Plasma Cell (b_plas0.bsp/b_plas1.bsp)

Notes:
* Both SoA and DoE player models should be based on capnbubs' latest model
** DoE's Minotaur Statue, Mummy and Zombie should be based on existing remakes. Zombie has additional frames #198-207 in animation "cruc_"
*** DoE's Guardians are basically sharing the same model, just using different skins (AFAIK)
**** DoE's Hephaestus is kind of a miniature version of Chthon

Should ALL of this get done due to a freakin' miracle one day, we can actually retire the project for good, LOL! I am really surprised we came this far without capnbubs. Chillo somehow gave a fresh impulse and we somehow improvised the rest so far.

[osjclatchford]

good minds think alike on that case then. but thought I'd check nonetheless.
also, being abit of an idiot, I failed to notice that the chillo flame twitter post i linked in a few posts back has a link to the filein one of the replies!

I downloaded it and it has the flame2 and flame1 (torch with handle) fully implemented yet these are not in his latest pack! crazy!
anyway the torch had some mosterously bad texturemapping issues that Ive since fixed and both flame1 and flame2 alternate mid-poly models can be found here:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/unr31...c_fix.zip/file

pic of the 'fixed' torch for the curious: https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/9e...i3jsiikbzg.jpg

Funny, as much as I agree with Nightfright regarding disliking the lightning from chillo, these flame models I feel are a great improvement over the original. odd how similar work from the same artist can yield such an opposing views from the same eyes looking at it! LOL

*edit*
writing this now, I realise you, too, all might have found the link to the file on chillo's twitter thread that I had missed, making this statement:

I have taken a look at all of Chillo's models he has released until now. Anything I considered useful is in the pack. The Thunderbolt projectile just doesn't look right to me, so I left it the way it was. Also one of the cases where less is sometimes more.

even more relevant and me more of an idiot.

So I just hope you've not already seen these and thus dismissed them already, then Id feel like a bit of a bell-end for posting them at all. but as I have altered the skin on flame1.mdl I suppose it makes it worth sharing?

if wanted in the pack, and unless I'm mistaken, that rounds out id1 model replacement with the exception of the spawn. (the "fixed" rotfish" is more than good enough imho) and the spawn is indeed not exactly something that warrants any work changing. the model is good at showing what it is, coupled by its lightning fast speed and dark placement. the only time it is seen upclose is with the ring of shadows on and even then it is supposed to be an amorphous blob of undifined glop with malicous intent. so yeah. thats us done on id1? (unless suitable 3rd party replacements occur?)

but what say you, NF?

[NightFright]

I have taken a look at all of Chillo's models he has released until now. Anything I considered useful is in the pack. The Thunderbolt projectile just doesn't look right to me, so I left it the way it was. Also one of the cases where less is sometimes more.

[osjclatchford]

LOLs its a lot of stuff in there to keep track of it all. I couldnt remember either so I simply figured, re-download the pack.

been on the prowl, model hunting again and found an old gem(?)
not sure if you know of these:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/egsui...bolts.zip/file
chillo made these higher poly lightning bolts (for the thunderbolt, shambler and chthon's pylons) a while back that are a slightly different take on the originals.
Im personally not 100% sold on these tbh as I feel they differ a lot from the very cheesey-cartoon-spikey originals (which is one of the things that spark my nostalgia nodes)
but I thought I'd share then nonetheless. just in case you like them and have missed them when they were first released. they were in a copy of one of his old packs and i'm not sure if they are still in the latest. Ive not seen anyone mention of them till now and if they are unwanted, so be it but its an alternative set of models for passers by nonetheless...

[NightFright]

Looked at the gibs ingame now and they look fine, so I guess they are in. I didn't even know there were gibs model in the pack already - forgot to mention them in the readme, lol. (Probably they came from an older AD release or possibly "RetroJam1" since I didn't list all external entries completely.)

[osjclatchford]

on a side-note, one model in id1 I'd like to see remade is this:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/0a...f9ryyqruzg.jpg
not necessarily the flame, but the handle/torchgip is crying out for a few more polys. and these things are everywhere...

[osjclatchford]

well In truth, I'll admit I missed that there are anims on the frames. when using them as their conterparts in regular quake in quakespasm, they dont animate nor rotate and seem to act precicely like the originals did: just fly up and tumble about the place.

I can delete the anim frames if you wish me to? If nothing else, it might make the filesize smaller somewhat...

*edit*
here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/b69t5...r_id1.zip/file are the models with the animation frames removed.
in truth it did little if nothing to filesize but I know you can sort that out in quark should you choose to.
(just fyi I chose frame 8 for gib3 as thats even closer in form to the original, just nicer texturemapping)
all tested in quakespasm and working great!

[NightFright]

I will have to see it ingame. Q1mv sucks with model previews sometimes. The AD gibs rotate by default and are animated, which looks very weird.

[osjclatchford]

right. I just had a look inside auth_mdl-r22 and found you have some gib models that re either the standard id1 models or they are some kind of debug versions perhaps.
anyway.

please do see this comparison pic to see what I mean:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/b2...6ljpbf3bzg.jpg

the three at the top are the ones you are currently using, the three below the ones by sock.
to me there is no contest. the difference is night and day.

the current gib1 (arm) is literally a square rectangular brick! LOL
the torso is better/neater poly and better texturemapped (look at the warping on the side of the torso on the top one!)
and the generic gib simply a bit neater and again, nicer tex-mapping... (again, massive warping on the top vertexes of the top one)

obviously if you're set against them thats fine its your decision for the project, I suppose I just dont get it...
sorry to keep going on about these but I guess Im just passionate about the fact that these are the definition of authentic faithfull remodels; slightly higher poly but true to original and I just can't see why you wouldn't want them in the pack.
It feels like a bit of an opportunity missed not to include them when they done and are already ready to go...
is it just because they are from AD or something?
I think they predate AD by a long shot, anyaway. sock made them a long while ago now I believe...

[NightFright]

I think none besides zombie gibs.

[osjclatchford]

re. gibs.
oh, ok then.

I use them because, essentially, these ad ones are slightly higher poly than standard yet use the (+/-) original skins. So thats why I thought to use them.

but each to his own.

I thought the gib1 (arm) looked the most noticably improved.
the gib2 (torso) I felt was better than vanilla but closer in authenticity than chillo's, which are too specific to his zombie model's torso in looks. I feel it needs to be more generic as its used for a variety of monsters (two dropped when a scrag dies! making it odd if it looks too specifically like the zombie torso)
the gib3 one is simply a slightly different model thats got better texturmapping than the original which has some very bad skewing visible on the top of the model.

if you look these side by side with id1's originals you'll see the noticable differences straight away, I'm sure...

what gib models are in the compilation currently?

[NightFright]

Great, then. Please note that the plasma cells are BSP models, though. I dunno if you are familiar with those. I have added the model names in question to my previous post.

Side note: Wetsuit model rotation fixed (internally, not gonna post that again unless someone really needs it badly).

[Tea Monster]

I have a horrible confession to make. I've only recently started playing DoE. I bought Armagon when it came out for the original Quake and played it through once or twice. I really enjoyed the Centroids and the way they tried to 'amp up' the classic game.

Fun fact: I bought Quake when when it first came out. I had a 386 DX20. Because I installed a coprocessor, I could actually run Quake, but only at a frame a second! It wasn't until a year or so later that I managed to source a PI 200 with a voodoo card and I was able to actually play the game!

I now have tools to open pak files and MDL models. I should be good, but thank you anyway.

[NightFright]

Outstanding! There would still be at least 3 pickups from the addons which would only require a polycount increase. If you are interested, I can post the originals here.

- SoA: Horn of Conjuring (horn.mdl)
- DoE: Antigrav Belt (beltup.mdl), Plasma Cell (b_plas0.bsp/b_plas1.bsp)

(The shields from the addon are actually OK, even though they appear in my list.)

With those done, we would have more than enough to justify another official release.

@osj:
From the stuff you posted earlier (eyes, exploding boxes etc), I will add everything except for the AD gibs. Those don't really look like anything special and didn't strike me as anything special.