Authentic Model Improvement

[osjclatchford]

well, the one I gave you to rig has a jumpy-assed limpy walk cycle... the one from bloodshot does not but has jello-skin vertex-wobbling...
to make the ogre playable really we need the skin integrity of the one I sent you (based ont he original sock model) but with better walk anims...

[Tea Monster]

With the Ogre, what problems were you having with the animation?

[Tea Monster]

Waiting to see what he says.

[osjclatchford]

well, I'm sure he used +/- the same colours that were on the original id skin.
which also has this problem.
as I say, it its only a problem when using lit files for the map. most people do, so thats why I made a version without any fullbright pixels.
however those that don't will find my chthon skin rather dull in comparison...

if you do get a fix for the chillo model then Im sure you can simply use this skin on the new model. (or If there are changes, I can easily duplicate these results so its no bother)

[NightFright]

The fullbright pixel fix for Chthon will be used. However, the skin didn't look bad before, either. Chillo might have intentionally used the fullbright effect for this purpose, but we can't be sure. Better to play it safe. Now the entire model is basically bright, which also kinda makes sense since we can assume the guy completely consists of lava. He's bathing in it after all.

But yeah, if TM managed to get Chillo's source models, it would help since the to-do list stuff could be handled very fast. We would especially need Chthon, Vore and Zombie.

[osjclatchford]

Think you might have missed the intended humor in my response.
Obviously I cant speak for Nightfright, but the point I was trying to make in jest was that, yeah, a source file might well help someone who knows and understands model manipulation to do those things, me; notsomuch...

[Tea Monster]

A source file will allow you to easily alter animations and physical properties. Want a bigger head? No problem. Missing animations or you don't like the walk cycle? Easy to fix if you have the rigged model in the origin file.

I notice he has a patreon page and it may be that he has this stuff to offer on there. I'll try and contact him and see what he says.

[osjclatchford]

source files, eh. That would make absolutely zero difference to what I'm doing. LOL models is models: fancy mathmatical-dark-magic trickery held together with rainbows and shiny diamonds that only exist for the nice, simple, 2d skins to wrapped around them...

as for the changes to the chthon. I'm starting to think that it would be going a step too far to replace the chillo chthon. but an altered model for the lavaman, yeah fair enough but I for one would see the removal of the chillo chthon as a lamentable loss...

however, I just noticed something. both the id1 and the chillo chthon share the fact that a lot of his skin is made up of fullbright pixels. not a problem in the standard e1m7, right? he is a lava-dweller afterall...

however, I like many play q1 with lit files for fancy coloured lighting.
However the resultant red-glow from the lava on e1m7 totally wrecks the skin of these models due to the fullbrights causing ugly pixelated artifacts all over the skin.
so Ive released this small 'fix' that swaps out the fullbright pixels for the closest alternatives I could find in the limited 256 colours of the quake engine:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pvtbfv..._safe.zip/file
this fixes the ugly artifacts when using lit files, but he'll look kinda dull if you dont use lits...
as such Ive left the original skin in there too... cos you know...

comparison shot for those still unclear: https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8e...zxhb7irkzg.jpg

[Tea Monster]

I've noticed that Chillo is on that Quake mapping server. I've PM'd him to ask if he can release more of his source files. If so, that would make your jobs a lot easier. I've found that he's released the Knight model blender source file.

[NightFright]

After comparing boss.mdl and lavaman.mdl from ID1/DoE, I can confirm the only thing that's changing is the skin. This reveals the actual problem with Chillo's Chthon which also has a small head. Based on this, a convincing Lavaman is hardly possible.

Will have to put Chthon back on the to-do list, guys. Head resize time!

[osjclatchford]

well now you're getting into the realms of major model alteration so thats me out.
I just figured that if the chthton is acceptably authentic, and the original lavaman is a simple reskin of the original chthon, then by that logic the new lavaman should match the new cthon. but I can absolutely see your point. it doesn't at all work in this instance

on the original model, the skin changes were enough to essentially make a new monster but without physical changes to the new model, the character and 'feel' of the original lavaman monster is lost.
its just the lo-poly nature of the old model makes the radical skin changes less jarring to the eye. amazing what a skin can do on the right model...

still. it was worth a go I suppose... perhaps this could be the base of someone-elses future work..?

[NightFright]

The attempt is good, however, the face part leaves room for improvement. In the original, the face is a lot bigger. Probably the head size of the Chthon model isn't big enough. The two "main horns" are too close together. I guess the head would have to be inflated somehow. The guy needs to look like a hulk, with a wide mouth like a bulldog.

[osjclatchford]

so, I had a look at the lavaman thing and gave it a second go, because why not eh?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/dnsp8q...an_v2.zip/file

so I was unclear when you simply stated "missing shock frames" its rather ambiguous as does theat mean you want them in or taken out? (they are in the boss but not in lavaman in the originals, and chillo's boss has them so I'm not sure if you simply want them removed from the lavaman made from chillo's boss? all getting confusing)
so, just to cover both bases I've a model with the shock frames still intact and one with them removed in this pack... pick which is needed! LOL

Ive removed the extra horns, and lightened the skin i was previously working with to match the classic lavaman.mdl and both the models have two skins for you to choose from: one with the classic lavaman face and one with the default chillo chthon face, due to the fact that the geometry of chillo's model can potentially make the classic lavaman face look odd at some angles.
however I never noticed when I tested it but, then, I tested the skin on chthon as I had no idea or interest in finding a lavaman in doe (as you know Ive no knowledge or interest in the doe campaign maps). I assume he behaves the same as chthon, making it impossible to get aside or behind him anyway as he always turns to face you? anyway here is a shot of the skin with the classic lavaman face in e1m7:
lavaman_chthon.jpg
perhaps someone with the skill and/or patience for model alteration can "smooth out" this model's face and the skin will make more visual sense then...

its a start nonetheless...

you know, I was just thinking if you were that interested you could even use this altered model (the one with all anims intact) as the boss.mdl in the pack (with the chthon skin ported back on I mean) as with the reduced horniness he's technically a better, faithful match for the classic chthon...
I wouldn't, myself, as I like the chillo one as it is. but as I say, t'would technically be even more authentic... just food for thought anyway...

[Tea Monster]

To be honest, I've had to look twice sometimes to see if what I'm working on is the original Id Software model or one of the replacements.

[osjclatchford]

nice one silly of me to even ask... you know what you're doing... sorry...

and really? how can an anyone say anything against that grunt!? thats pure madness... its THE most faithfull of all mid-poly-models ive seen (well perhaps lunerans knight is just that little bit more, using the classic skin itself) its the one that started it all after all... I cant even...