What if.. and then what

[MadGypsy]

What if I took the (unfinished) QC from scratch tutorials and started them over?

What if I also (eventually) finished them, but you ended up with a completely different game code in the end?

What if it was possible to remake Quake with that code, but it had no idea what to do with original Quake at all?

I guess you could say - What if I taught you how to program in QC and didn't teach you one damn thing about Quake?

This is the opposite direction of R00ks tutorials but when taken together you could become a QC super hero. I teach you how to forget about Quake, while he teaches you everything about it (in a qc sense). You would have a very broad scope of the language and it's implementation.

I have enough of my own material to start writing these tutorials.

Oh, BUT, I am not writing these tutorials for one or three people. If a respectable "classroom" size (or the world) of people want to learn, I will teach.

Other things to consider:

1) I'm not going to post copyable code. You are gonna have to retype all of everything and it's going to be a whole friggin lot. If you aren't up for retyping all of Quake, you aren't up to learning from the tutorials I have in mind.
2) You will also have to completely rebuild your radiant ent (or worldcraft fgd {I'll teach both}) from the ground up

[JDSTONE]

Oh, BUT, I am not writing these tutorials for one or three people. If a respectable "classroom" size (or the world) of people want to learn, I will teach.

your forgetting that the size of your classroom is time when you post on hear it can be used today and years down the road. i learn a lot from shit you posted years ago.

i solved a error i was getting last night in quake with someone's post from years ago that seven helped them with.

it will suck if you post pics of the code and it all has to be retyped. i make a lot of errors. but if that's how your going to do it so be it. you are the teacher.

just don't be shocked if i run your coed to be retyped throw a text recognizing software. don't put it past me i have done it with collage textbooks its only about 40hrs per book.

[MadGypsy]

@JD - you miss the point. The point is not to copy and paste my code. If I wanted to just "give" you a chunk at a time, I'd make it downloadable and you wouldn't have to do anything. I did make one decision about that though, for lists of constants and other such things where there is nothing to really learn, its just stored data you need, I would make that copy/paste friendly.

The other point is to make the tutorials so involved that only die hard people that really want to learn will "join". I need ?18? people that can look themself in a mirror and say "I'm gonna completely rebuild the source QC, from the ground up, into something different" and mean it.


If that shows up, I'll write the F out of some stuff..

The only way to be a programmer is to understand and type code, JD. Typing is the most necessary part of being a programmer. If you don't type, nothing is gonna happen. It doubly helps to be able to type straight out of your head. You can only do that by learning the entire language. I'm not 100% at that level yet, but I'm getting closer and closer every day. I can however write/change hundreds of lines before a single compile and my errors are generally a complete joke. Maybe 2 or 3 and usually it's something simple like using = instead of == (my fingers are still stuck on php. I finally stopped occasionally typing $ before my vars too)

[R00k]

I think this is a good idea, as you are taking a different angle, with modern engines and modern compilers; without limitations of 1996.

My initial "let's make a QuakeC mod" thread was, let's (whomever is interested) start with bare bones and add some meat to it. Letting everyone under the sun see every progressive step. Since most my experience WAS circa 1999-2003++ i was limited with that quakeC. But obv, things have changed. And my tut/blog would be a half-step into the future. I can only provide up to a point functionally but limited. This is where the meat gets the sauce. When others would add to-do's of features and others shaking their heads and saying no now we CAN use arrays now.. etc.

At any rate anything that gives the average joe a magic marker and lets them do instead of wish, is all a step forward.

[MadGypsy]

My initial "let's make a QuakeC mod" thread

..is a great idea and you should still do it. I don't realistically see even 5 people that would be willing to take my tutorials, so I don't see my tutorials ever happening. I know that I could take the JD view that nobody now could still be plenty of people over the coming years, but I don't want to be typing all of this to myself, with the possibility that 20 people will do 2 lessons over the next 10 years.

These would be the most involved and longest tutorials I have ever written. If I'm going to put in the time, I want better than "maybe lots of people will read it later". However there is still good that will come from this. I'm rewriting all of QC whether I ever write tutorials or not. I have already rewritten more than half of it and some things I have rewritten 2 or 3 different ways.

Spike actually dogged me a bit about that "You don't need 2 animation classes". I know that. I wrote 2 animation classes cause I figured out 2 different ways to do it and I wanted to test them both. I'd write 2 more if some more ways to do it appeared in my brain.

To give an idea of where I am in the script:

Everything that can move, animate or be picked up is done. (characters, doors, plats, buttons, trains, weapons, other items & misc models).

I also have finished light, lightstyles & point effects. I don't think "point effects" describes what I mean so I will explain it. You can now take any effect from effectsinfo.txt and add it to your map via radiant. Some of the work I like to do is, taking Sevens work and making it possible in the radiant ent as opposed to the DP one.

So what does that leave.. I have to get into CSQC and make a HUD that merges with my new weapon/items system. I have to finish my weapons/items system. I need to rewrite the entire AI (I'm going to make this a gigantic deal) and then I need to fill in some blanks with things like

ClientObituary, SetParms, etc

I think that might be it. I'm sure there is something I am forgetting, but this is definitely the meat and potatoes.

[MadGypsy]

I also see this potentially happening another way. After I have completely rewritten QC and thrown all of the kitchen sinks in, and release it, I'm pretty friggin sure there are going to be people that want to use it. They are going to find out really quick that there is no tutorial anywhere to teach them how to mod the QC. This thread will end up with people "begging" me to teach them cause my QC obsoletes every single solitary QC tutorial on inside 3d. It's as completely different as I can possibly make it. I am also proud to say that I have never taken a single tutorial from inside3d. The closest you could come was me using the defs.qc from Quake from scratch tutorial. I however, never read any of that tutorial. The reason why I am proud to say this is, it means I figured this shit out on my own. And now I'm rewriting all of it.

[hgdagon]

What if I took the (unfinished) QC from scratch tutorials and started them over?

It would be totally GREAT!!!!

What if I also (eventually) finished them, but you ended up with a completely different game code in the end?

What if it was possible to remake Quake with that code, but it had no idea what to do with original Quake at all?

I guess you could say - What if I taught you how to program in QC and didn't teach you one damn thing about Quake?

What matters is the result. If the result has Quake taste, it should definitely be done!!!

[JDSTONE]

qc is your art dont let lack of a team stop you from your art man.

i aint gonna get it but i will be following along
thats all i was trying to say

[MadGypsy]

Actually JD, if you applied yourself differently, you could get it. I know all about your dyslexia and what-not. That's no excuse, bro (I say that with love). What about the guy with no arms that accurately repaints masterpieces with his feet, or that 90 year old guy that is still pole vaulting...

It's all a frame of mind, bro.If you've decided that it's beyond you, you have already lost. I started my first paint company with ZERO tools, NO vehicle and not even a step stool for a ladder. My first job was $19,860. Let's recap - I scored a $20k job and I didn't even have a paint brush. You know what I did have? Almost 20 years of experience and an ABSOLUTE determination to make it happen. To make a short story long - I got a $3000 draw before I even started the job and I bought everything. (ladders, power tools, hand tools, everything except the vehicle). I then paid someone with a vehicle to get everything to the job.

There is no can't, bro...only wont.