Today was having a discussion in GroupMe , more or less a debate.
Avatar
sschm
How can he keep up with K0ng when k0ng has typically -35 ms
and since hardware means little with Quake1, a game created 20 years ago
I'm on my laptop and just loving how I could game with it, especially in Q1
Avatar
[]mindzx
negative 35ms? Seems like a law is being violated, and I don't mean "SSCHM's Law of thou must not ping too low"
Avatar
sschm
I had 85hz, but even with the 144hz hack, their advantage was not enough for me to cry over, although I know it makes a slight difference
negative 35ms from Bruce's ping of 50
So normally, if you had 35 to 50, you get 85ms, and that is quite a disadvantage that anyone with 50ms would know about
if I was playing some guy with 85ms and I had 50ms, i would realize things aren't fair
add* 35 to 50
the problem with this realization comes from the k0ngs who claim their 15ms is not an advantage over 50ms, because once you hit 50ms, you are good
it is stupidity and a means to feel good about yourself playing with a ping well below that of your opponents
Avatar
[]mindzx
I dont know how many times r00k has to explain that the ping reporting is incorrect for Quake when fps goes above 60/72 fps....
Quake can't magically lower the network latency between hops 2 through whatever.
Avatar
sschm
R00k is incorrect, because I ping higher than I really do to a server when my max_fps is set to 72
They use two different protocols: UDP and ICMP
Avatar
[]mindzx
You're missing the entire point. Nothing Quake does can adjust the RESPONSE TIMES for the hops on any given route.
Avatar
sschm
you check your ping with ICMP packets that are typically about 40bytes
Even if you have a lot of routes in your traceroute, so long as those routes are low-latency, your ping to the server will be low. With each new route, there is a chance for added latency based upon that node and how stable it is. In old times, these routes were not as stable as they could be, but developments of high speed internet increased much further since 1996, when at that time most people had dialup
I did a packet capture of UDP packets and they were not much larger per packet than the standard size of about 40 for ICMP
7:00 PM
Avatar
sschm
I am 59-65ms with the suggested fps @ 72 at crmod, but 50-56 @ 120. Pings would often show the same at crmod for most players, but then the accusations came in that these pings were not real but based on FPS... but I get even more ping than what my ICMP packet reports suggest
i mean at dmtx*
Avatar
[]mindzx
I expanded this discussion to actual engine dev's, I am gonna point Spike in that posts direction.
Avatar
sschm
so we had these guys that had equal showing pings in game claiming that the pings are not accurate
---------------
If the engine dev's would kindly chirp in with their knowledge of Q1 network protocol, and the more fps = lower ping ??
It is my opinion (because I have nothing technical to back it up,aside from what I would dub as common sense) that you can't ping lower than any given hops maximum ping/latency route to a server, acknowledging that network load can be higher or lower and some fluxuation can occur, but for the most part, routing dictates latency to a Q1 server, and any benefits from using 500fps vs a standard Vysnc 60fps can't be taken at face value.
Avatar
sschm
How can he keep up with K0ng when k0ng has typically -35 ms
and since hardware means little with Quake1, a game created 20 years ago
I'm on my laptop and just loving how I could game with it, especially in Q1
Avatar
[]mindzx
negative 35ms? Seems like a law is being violated, and I don't mean "SSCHM's Law of thou must not ping too low"
Avatar
sschm
I had 85hz, but even with the 144hz hack, their advantage was not enough for me to cry over, although I know it makes a slight difference
negative 35ms from Bruce's ping of 50
So normally, if you had 35 to 50, you get 85ms, and that is quite a disadvantage that anyone with 50ms would know about
if I was playing some guy with 85ms and I had 50ms, i would realize things aren't fair
add* 35 to 50
the problem with this realization comes from the k0ngs who claim their 15ms is not an advantage over 50ms, because once you hit 50ms, you are good
it is stupidity and a means to feel good about yourself playing with a ping well below that of your opponents
Avatar
[]mindzx
I dont know how many times r00k has to explain that the ping reporting is incorrect for Quake when fps goes above 60/72 fps....
Quake can't magically lower the network latency between hops 2 through whatever.
Avatar
sschm
R00k is incorrect, because I ping higher than I really do to a server when my max_fps is set to 72
They use two different protocols: UDP and ICMP
Avatar
[]mindzx
You're missing the entire point. Nothing Quake does can adjust the RESPONSE TIMES for the hops on any given route.
Avatar
sschm
you check your ping with ICMP packets that are typically about 40bytes
Even if you have a lot of routes in your traceroute, so long as those routes are low-latency, your ping to the server will be low. With each new route, there is a chance for added latency based upon that node and how stable it is. In old times, these routes were not as stable as they could be, but developments of high speed internet increased much further since 1996, when at that time most people had dialup
I did a packet capture of UDP packets and they were not much larger per packet than the standard size of about 40 for ICMP
7:00 PM
Avatar
sschm
I am 59-65ms with the suggested fps @ 72 at crmod, but 50-56 @ 120. Pings would often show the same at crmod for most players, but then the accusations came in that these pings were not real but based on FPS... but I get even more ping than what my ICMP packet reports suggest
i mean at dmtx*
Avatar
[]mindzx
I expanded this discussion to actual engine dev's, I am gonna point Spike in that posts direction.
Avatar
sschm
so we had these guys that had equal showing pings in game claiming that the pings are not accurate
---------------
If the engine dev's would kindly chirp in with their knowledge of Q1 network protocol, and the more fps = lower ping ??
It is my opinion (because I have nothing technical to back it up,aside from what I would dub as common sense) that you can't ping lower than any given hops maximum ping/latency route to a server, acknowledging that network load can be higher or lower and some fluxuation can occur, but for the most part, routing dictates latency to a Q1 server, and any benefits from using 500fps vs a standard Vysnc 60fps can't be taken at face value.
Comment