Licensing: copyleft vs. creative commons

[numbersix]

Just curious if anyone has a particular opinions on licensing.

For code, I use GPL. Much of Quake-c and the engines I work with are GPL, so it makes sense.
I've been dealing with GPL for a long while and I (mostly) understand it.

I have a new venture where I will be releasing more than code:

Right now, for lack of a major release - like a cool game I have a ton of ideas for,
I'm uploading some of my various elements like models, images, audio and the like.

I dont believe anyone is going to lose their mind over some quake one stuff. So this is mostly good practice.
Thus later when I have more serious elements, everything will be covered.

I checked copyleft licenses and Creative Commons.

My main focus is to provide materials for modders and game makers to modify and use.
Also block any unwanted commercial exploitation and get credit.

The Creative Commons CC-BY-NC-SA seems to provide for that.
There does seem to be some criticism of the NC aspect.
My understanding is that anything under CC can be re-licensed as needed.

Did I miss anything important?

Or put another way:

Later on when I finally have something I can sell, or license, is CC going to be a thorn in my side?

[Spike]

first off, I'm not a lawyer (... boo, hiss...)

if you're choosing the license without any viral-like licenses like the gpl, then you're free to re-release that same stuff under a different license.
you cannot revoke a license unless the original license included some sort of clause that allows that.

of course, if your stuff includes even one line of gpled code, then you need to release under the gpl as it becomes a derivative work. which means that other people's stuff can no longer be included (if its incompatible with the gpl).
because the gpl only applies on distribution, and because you don't have to make ALL copies gpled, you can keep your private copy of whatever and release that under a non-gpl-compatible license, but only if you were disciplined enough to keep them sufficiently separate that you know it didn't get tainted with other people's copyrights, but tbh that goes for anything.
anyway, I'm not a lawyer, some juristictions may allow fair use (the definition of which varies by country that actually allows it), some juristictions don't actually allow some things to be copyrighted at all, but neither of these exclude the possibility of some texan suing you for it anyway (its always texas...).
at the end of the day, you can get sued even if you don't violate copyrights.

but anyway, if you opt to use the gpl through personal choice (rather than because you copied someone else's code, which typically implies you started from absolute scratch), then you can relicense it however you want, but if you want to keep that option open then you must refuse to accept any patches from anyone, otherwise it'll get tainted by other people's copyrights which would prevent relicensing.

[numbersix]

Thanks!

Mostly I'm wondering if anyone has run into issues using Creative Commons.

Once I set this on autopilot, things will flow by.
Then one day I'll find someone that wants to license something and I dont
want to be kicked by the license I picked.

[Mugwump]

Later on when I finally have something I can sell, or license, is CC going to be a thorn in my side?

No. Bands like Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead have released digital albums under CC of which they later sold physical versions.

[Baker]

I've read a lot of "big ideas" "what license agreement" threads -- often other forums, but sometimes here too.

My general perception from reading them is that this kind of question (historically) is the symptom of a problem.

The asker is usually preoccupied with the idea of making something, but people that actually do make stuff are preoccupied with the act of making something.

Short version:

1) People that make things, make things first and then worry about the fine print later.

2) People that don't make things, are usually more caught up with the romance of the idea of making something --- and focus on imaginary obstacles like paperwork issues instead of diving into the act of building something --- which is always hard.

This is just what I've seen. I can think of maybe 2 dozen instances where someone got super caught up with license agreements and I can't think of any instances where the person asking ever ended up completing anything.

Usually the guy who doesn't care about the license agreement is the guy that ends up making something awesome and then fixes it later to comply to the license agreement (or --- hahah, not at all).

/One opinion, I'm often wrong about these kinds of things.

[nahuel]

I prefer CC0 (public domain) for all the assets.

If everything (code and media) is under gpl there is no problem ( is the way in which you can work relaxed, I am doing a small mini game with all GPL content), that was fine.

Aniway
GPL is paranoid, CC is restricted in many variations (like the stupid Non commercial, IF SOME GUY IS SELLING YOUR STUFF??? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM DUDE wtfff).
All these kind of licences are always shit.

[Mugwump]

like the stupid Non commercial, IF SOME GUY IS SELLING YOUR STUFF??? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM DUDE wtfff

The problem is profiteers who make money out of your free hard work while you don't get a dime.

[MadGypsy]

That may be the first "you ain't gonna do shit" post by Baker that I agree with. I usually don't agree with his similar posts but, I believe this one is true. Trying to "insure a house that hasn't even been built" shows a serious lack of focus and priorities.

However, my opinion here is not meant to reflect on the original poster beyond however it may coincidentally apply. IE I'm off-topic with a blanket opinion, not pointing fingers.

[Baker]

Ah, well that isn't what I was saying. I don't know anything about Number 6 except that he seems like he's smart.

But worrying about the fine print too much is not a winning focus.

In the end, "fine print" is dotting I's and crossing T's.

And it's pretty meaningless stuff compared to difficulty of building something, much less building something that someone else is going to want to use.

If you build something yourself, you decide the license agreement anyway. And if you built something as a derivative work, you don't have a choice in license agreement because the original work determines that.

But the hard thing isn't the paperwork issues, it's the actual "building something".

[numbersix]

question has been answered

Posts tell me what I want to know.
Thanks again all of you.

What motivates me on this question isnt so much what I'm going to do, but what I have done.

I have a career as an IATSE stagehand working under contract. I know when it comes to contracts and licensing it is much better to ask first than get screwed later. I also know some screwings can not be un-screwed.

Y'all take it easy, and remember to play some Quake this week.

[MadGypsy]

Maybe my "you ain't gonna make shit" description was too strong. The point was more about putting the cart before the horse when you don't even have a cart or horse yet.

[Baker]

The point was more about putting the cart before the horse when you don't even have a cart or horse yet.

In my head, when I see someone "sweating the small stuff" before even getting started ...

They are afraid of getting started.

Everyone is. You have to overcome that fear and just get started.

Getting started sucks

It's some hard work and you might have to start over 6 or 7 times or trash your idea.

/Yeah cart before the horse and all that

[numbersix]

Ah, well that isn't what I was saying. I don't know anything about Number 6 except that he seems like he's smart.

Thanks Baker! You rock.

Besides I know you read:

I'm uploading some of my various elements

if you built something as a derivative work, you don't have a choice in license agreement because the original work determines that.

Yep, I have to keep explaining this about quake mods.

But the hard thing isn't the paperwork issues, it's the actual "building something".

Sometimes getting to a release feels like climbing a mountain. It feels good at the top though.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Thanks Baker! You rock.

Besides I know you read:
I'm uploading some my various elements.




Yep, I have to keep explaining this about quake mods.



Sometimes getting to a release feels like climbing a mountain. It feels good at the top though.