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**Baker** · 04-01-2006, 02:49 AM

Thanks for the quality information on that and for answering those questions Sassa.

And I don't think anyone was going to interpret you were trying to snag players or anything like that, and even if you did it wouldn't matter to us. Quake is how you like playing it.

If you want to play competitive Quake, Quakeworld is definitely the way to go.

I'll tell you about where most of this community comes from so you can understand us better. We are actually quite different from your communities on a whole, let me explain:

We do have a server that is largely elite CA+ players. There is also some rocket arena and DM action in the evenings.

Aside from that, most of our servers are dominated by the grappling hook. And about 1/2 of them feature runes, including 2 that have at least 50 types.

Free-for-all is dominant here and all of those servers feature a high speed grappling hook, and it is usually big games like 8-16 players. Also are players on average aren't the serious competitive types, but rather the casual types who play for fun. Many of the servers feature spawn shields to deter spawn camping that once plagued our servers.

We do have some serious players, especially CA+ players and those that enjoy rocket arena.

A few years back our community was more into "who owns who", but at some point in time became a more relaxed, less serious community overall.

And, as far as I've ever been able to tell, only a very small fraction even use a server browser. *ALL* of our servers have a DNS, like quake.ihoc.net, for instance. Most of the servers in our community have been around for years. The players know where they like to play and where they don't and they know the DNS, but the downside of this is that new servers or revamped servers have some trouble getting a player base.

One of the nice aspects of our community is that it is very newbie friendly and tends to attract players that stick around for years. We have a lot of very experienced players as well, but on average probably not on par with your best as many of our players don't play in formal competitive matches.

This is one thing I know is poorly understood by the occasional Quakeworld player that tries to "convert us". They don't really know too much about the demographics of the servers and the popular mods. This isn't too surprising since yesterday I was asking Vegetous about what Total Destruction II is Brazil, which seems to have developed a cult following there.

This is getting to be quite a long post, but one observation I've seen with the US Quakeworld servers is that there seems to be a really annoying skill mismatch when joining games.

My skills are probably an 8 out of 10. When I connect to a Quakeworld server, often I find I am either fighting some hopelessly outclassed players or getting my azz kicked by some Quake god. In the former, they leave. In the later, I leave. I personally like big games. Oddly enough the only ones I've ever been able to find are in Europe where my ping is 250. It's my kind of game, but the fun of being dead every time I spawn without even getting to move is no fun.

Also, and you probably know this, most of us (90%) are using a "fat-pipe" (broadband) with pings under 70, and many under 50. Having a 130 ping here makes you an HPB, and some would say being 90+. Today I got the opportunity to battle the super-elite Tical. His ping was 18 and mine was 34. So, for many of us, internet play on domestic servers is not too much different than LAN play.

Thanks for your information Sassa and that type of information is welcomed and encouraged. We appreciate it and feel welcome to do more if you like. We don't intend to be an exclusively NQ forum, although that will be our primary focus as we serve our players first and foremost, of course, and besides you guys have 4 solid QW sites anyway.

[/that was a long post]

**sassa** · 04-01-2006, 06:49 AM

Hehe, about the ping talk.
In europe ping 38 is hpw kind of

most ppl have 13->26 around europe and it almost feels like lan, but when u get into div1 its lots of whine about the ping!
People take the game very seriously (most ppl in div1-2) and the ping whines are a natural thing here.
No one wanna play a ping 13 with 38 and from that we get, the so often, QW-dramah.
We have 2 ffa servers in europe thats highly active, in Holland and Finland.
I think we like the camping style, it feels more natural to the game, if you are good enough to camp and get those frags, why then stop you? thats probably the european thinking.

The European scene was close to be as the usa qw scene with huge bars between the skill level of the players. Somehow we just managed to get new ppl into the community and the old newbies got to be better and the new ones took their place.

99% of the players in europe got "fat-pipe" connections.

The server structure is a bit different, we got specific 1on1 , 2on2 and 4on4 servers.
Some servers are often used for 4on4 mix games like wargames(denmark) and IconOfPain (sweden).

We got a bot on QuakeNet called ServeMe that is in over 110 Channels and can get intuch with over 2000 ppl with just a message.

You can come to #qwnet and request the bot, then you have 2 options of how to use the bot:
.qw message = thats used for important stuff, the outcome is like this:
[@[ServeMe]02] -qw- Mursu - #elintarha : prac vs. zoo now?
[@[ServeMe]02] -qw- Haza - #parolanvisa : div4-5 prac
[@[ServeMe]02] -qw- t1s - #ibh : duel dm4 dm6?
[@[ServeMe]02] -qw- Rock- - #legeartis : mix @ wargamez.dk:27502
.spam message = for everything else that should not be in .qw:
[@[ServeMe]02] -spam- Term - #chosen : http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?...783_154978.jpg - for you gaz, and #mor - from .se ,)
etc...

The servers are alot but most of them got already an alias in my servers.txt that I have created for the ppl that wanna join quickly without knowing the dns: http://quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11

I can say that, my skilllevel in 4on4 is div1 but in 2on2 im more like div4 and in 1on1 div5 but I still occasionally 1on1/2on2 from time to time just for the fun of it, even though ParadokS rapes me with 50 frags on dm6 I still find it fun to get him once in a while

once more about the ping discussion, I still find 13 on the internet different to 13 on lan

so did I always do in Q1 aswell.. nothing is like lan, but do you guys use tic_rate 0 on the servers that allowes you to have the genuine Q1 feeling it was supposed to have?
because in tic_rate 0 you can bunnyjump almost like u can in QW and the game is alot faster, and that was how Q1 wa supposed to be, if u watch the SpeedDemoArchives you can see that they got almost the same physics as QW does with the speed jumps.

again im abit tired because I havent sleept that much and Im just way too eager of the upcoming Football game tonight, el classico, viva real

**Baker** · 04-01-2006, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by sassa

Hehe, about the ping talk.
In europe ping 38 is hpw kind of

most ppl have 13->26 around europe and it almost feels like lan, but when u get into div1 its lots of whine about the ping!

Never knew that. Usually the first thing a QW guy says in the typical Q vs. QW argument is always the "netcode" and so I always thought Europe had a lot of dialup users that get lag or something.

We have 2 ffa servers in europe thats highly active, in Holland and Finland.
I think we like the camping style, it feels more natural to the game, if you are good enough to camp and get those frags, why then stop you? thats probably the european thinking.

We had a lot of players grenade spamming and other things that were annoying. More often than not, we stick with the standard id maps, and get a lot of play on the E1M1 thru E4M8 maps due to the number of participants.

I do know if things work out, our community will have more custom map action for those who are interested in that.

The European scene was close to be as the usa qw scene with huge bars between the skill level of the players. Somehow we just managed to get new ppl into the community and the old newbies got to be better and the new ones took their place.

You Europeans always have looked like you have a healthy number of players on the servers, so I figured you have more a newbie scene going on over there. I think the Team Fortress servers here in the USA were a good breeding ground for QW newbies, but it looks like those servers are starting to thin down.

For us, Rune Quake is where we get a lot of players from. That mod is strategic like chess and gives players with very limited skills a chance to participate and have fun. We have a lot of newbies, and newbies are the next generation.

once more about the ping discussion, I still find 13 on the internet different to 13 on lan

so did I always do in Q1 aswell.. nothing is like lan, but do you guys use tic_rate 0 on the servers that allowes you to have the genuine Q1 feeling it was supposed to have?

I think the ticrate is 0.15 or something. But we truly for the most part aren't playing Quake like the original. Hooks, runes, spawn shields, jets, easy ammo, exit teleporters and some other things you wouldn't believe.

Here is the USA it seems like many players went on to Quake 3. I think Q3 is ok, but I like Q1 a lot better.

because in tic_rate 0 you can bunnyjump almost like u can in QW and the game is alot faster, and that was how Q1 wa supposed to be, if u watch the SpeedDemoArchives you can see that they got almost the same physics as QW does with the speed jumps.

I think that is one of the weirdest things about Quakeworld, but I'm sure if I played it all the time, I'd like it.

football game tonight, el classico, viva real

**Solecord** · 04-01-2006, 08:27 AM

sassa, would you be willing to write (or know of one that exists) a guide that explains step by step for "noobs" how to get started playing QW? To be really honest, I'm all set up for netquake and I just click the icon when I want to play and I'm in a game. I don't want to spend time trying to get a new client installed to play a "different" game. If there was some sort of quick easy setup guide that explained things I might give it a try.

**Aquashark** · 04-01-2006, 12:28 PM

http://www.challenge-smackdown.com/qwguide/

QuakeWorld for freshies

**sassa** · 04-01-2006, 05:12 PM

thats not the guide I wanna give you, solecord!
Im working on a guide as we speak and it will be released with fQuake (legal version of eQuake)

**sassa** · 04-02-2006, 07:01 PM

I dont get it, when ppl say that Q1's netcode was made for LPB (fat-pipe) and now that you got it, you still have the ticrate on 0.15 (its good for HPW's)

In europe back in 01-02 we started using ticrate 0.1 and 0 just because we had fat-pipes.
but it still didnt feel as good as we wanted it to feel!
the downside with the Q1 servers is the lack of commands and structure.
You can only kick a player if u got admin, you can not vote to get the admin. (possible in QW)
The spectators can ingame talk to the players. (not possible in QW)
and lots of other stuff that the QW servers got better structore over.

I think that, if you guys wantto develope you clan scene, then a new servermod should be fixed.
In QW the server records a demo called .mvd and any1 can download the mvd's directly from the server and get all point_of_views from the game
most servers have a buffer on the latest 100 games and delete the oldest when a new game is played.
The players dont need to start a recording like the old nq days we had.
The clients are way better in QW aswell with config saving (in the game) and lots of nice teammessages (yeah proquake got some good and xQuake had some excellent but its not close to fuh/ez-quake's teammessages)
for example, you can bind a button to "shownick" and in-game push that button on one of your teamm8s and see his nick+health+armor+weapon.
These things are just some spicy things that makes the teamplay be much better than it was.

You can see the activity of Quakeworld at a good Server site www.Quakeservers.net
http://quakeservers.net/?p=servers&pl=1&so=8&l=0
in that link you got the servers listed with popular servers on top.
You need to use it around 19-21 CET when all the european players are online and you will find, like I did tonight, over 10 4on4 servers packed with players playing 4on4, then u have lots of ppl playing 2on2/1on1/ffa etc and even more spectating the games.
With Qizmo you can get better routing.
for example if you live in NY and u wanna play in florida:
If u dont use a qizmo the routing might go to chicago then washington then atlanta then florida.
But if u got a qizmo in atlanta the routing might change and get you directly from NY -> atlanta -> florida and save you 25 ms so from a ping of 60 you will now get 35 with the qizmo!
Im not sure at all with that routing

was just giving u american guys an example.
You can also connect to a qizmo and then connect to a server with spectator mode and ppl that wanna spectate the game can just eazly connect to the qizmo and then spectate through your point_of_view and that wont put presure on the server, it will put presure on the qizmo instead, and when the qizmo isnt on the server pc then the players wont feel any lagg and can play smoothly!
over in europe we got qizmos all over, several in each country to help ppl with their routing and if they wanna put up some cams for some big games!
the FTE crew have fixed something called QTV, it will make a 10 sec delay for everyone spectating through it for getting the Ghosting away (ghosting = when some1 in one of the teams are spectating the game and giving hints to the team) + that it will take only 15fps/player (qizmo = 77fps) that will reduce the lagg of the qizmo/qtv server + all the qtv spectators can view any point_of_view they want.
QTV simply streams the .mvd and can only be used with the newest MVDSV servers (we have not got a new stable MVDSV server yet, but there are ppl working on it as we speak)
Im looking at your "quakeOne Navigator" and it looks bloody marvelous.
Its almost like the site I wanna create for GetQuakeWorld for beginners.

I think you Q1 guys can just dropp the netcode argument if u still use ticrate 0.15

because that was my argument before and it just dosnt make sence!

In europe we never played rune quake, but I have been on some american servers (back in 2003 I think) and played some runequake on e1m5 when I used ng and some guy just went on fire or something, didnt make anysence to me why ppl were playing, so can u explain whats so good about runequake?
and if you guys got fat-pipes why not ticrate 0 ?

hehe yeah, I am always coming back to the ticrate 0 discussion because it dosnt make any sence of using 0.15 when u say u got good enough connections to use 0 and get the genuin Q1 feeling

Try this: set up a Q1 server at your own pc and connect to it through localhost and put ticrate 0 on it, then feel how u can jump faster, longer, better. feel how u can aim better, get better air controll!
then play Q1 on the net with ticrate 0.15 then feel the difference.
now the last test, try playing QW and see witch one your Q1 server with ticrate 0 comes closest to:
Q1 with ticrate 0.15 on the net
or QW online

again Im still tired

well im always tired but atleast el classico ended 1-1 and ronaldo scored !

**Baker** · 04-02-2006, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by sassa

I dont get it, when ppl say that Q1's netcode was made for LPB (fat-pipe) and now that you got it, you still have the ticrate on 0.15 (its good for HPW's)

I think it is to help the HPBs we have left. There aren't a lot of them, but we still want them to play. On a couple of servers, there is some custom code on the engine side to reduce lag issues for HPBs.

The spectators can ingame talk to the players. (not possible in QW)
and lots of other stuff that the QW servers got better structore over.

True. Although almost all of our admins are excellent QuakeC programmers and at least 2 are C programmers that modify the server engine and would write that in they wanted to. We have "observer talk" using MM2 on some of the servers where spectators talk amongst themselves.

In QW the server records a demo called .mvd and any1 can download the mvd's directly from the server and get all point_of_views from the game
most servers have a buffer on the latest 100 games and delete the oldest when a new game is played.

You have superior server-side modifications in a lot of different ways.

The clients are way better in QW aswell with config saving (in the game) and lots of nice teammessages (yeah proquake got some good and xQuake had some excellent but its not close to fuh/ez-quake's teammessages)

QRack has been heavily modified for team play commands. I'm not so much into those type of commands, being more of an FFA loving player, so I just use the basics. I know a lot of sophisticated changes have been made in QRack.

You need to use it around 19-21 CET when all the european players are online and you will find, like I did tonight, over 10 4on4 servers packed with players playing 4on4, then u have lots of ppl playing 2on2/1on1/ffa etc and even more spectating the games.

If we had a server like XS4ALL here, I'd play (that's the big FFA one, right?) But 1 on 1, 2 on 2, 4 on 4, those aren't really my cup of tea although I do enjoy them from time to time. I'm just speaking for myself in all of this.

Im looking at your "quakeOne Navigator" and it looks bloody marvelous.
Its almost like the site I wanna create for GetQuakeWorld for beginners.

Thanks! I made that part of the site and tried to make it look cool.

I think you Q1 guys can just dropp the netcode argument if u still use ticrate 0.15

because that was my argument before and it just dosnt make sence!

Ah, that's never been the argument. I and a lot of play stuff that isn't replicated in Quakeworld, or is in some shapes and forms more advanced in some particular aspect. Customization always does that, like how FTEQW can do things EZQuake can't, for example. There are some things we like about the servers we play on that aren't available in QW in the combination some of us like.

So can u explain whats so good about runequake?

Heheh, probably not. I like it. I like mixing it up and playing some RA and DM. Actually some days it is like the Quake Olympics playing 5 different types. I'd play QW if the right types of servers were around and the right types of environments were around, but I feel that a good portion of us here has some aspects that aren't reproduced in QW. This gets into hard to explain things.

again Im still tired

well im always tired but atleast el classico ended 1-1 and ronaldo scored !

I don't know who Ronaldo is (Swedish soccer team guy?) but I'm glad he scored for ya

Hehe, get some sleep Sassa

**Polarite** · 04-03-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by sassa

I used to do that myself, was administrator of the NetQuakeEurope site (netquake.be its down) and loved to always say that nothing can come close to Quake1.

Sassa,

The netquake site is still up just not netquake.be anymore but this :
http://members.webdeveloping.nl/~trouby/nqeu/ .

Nice explanation btw !

**Bank** · 04-03-2006, 07:04 PM

Quakeworld is for retards and gimps.

(Apologies to any retards or gimps in the audience.)

**Monster** · 04-03-2006, 07:06 PM

wut the hell is a gimp?? and yeah I agree that QW sucks.

**Baker** · 04-03-2006, 07:46 PM

We don't really need a lot of that in this thread. If you don't like Quakeworld, or if you do, explain why.

Sassa, who used to be a prominent NetQuake player (hate that word) is explaining why he switched to Quakeworld and what he feels that community has to offer and why he likes it. He's describing it in detail and sharing his thoughts and telling us about his community.

The Quakeworld community is a fine place and has a lot of dedicated loyalists who have made some great advancements/content for the game. For some questions and research I do, I find the Quakeworld community is more knowledgable about certain topics and I ask them questions quite often.

I might add that, unlike some of our recent past history, the Quakeworld community benefitted from mass cooperation (FuhQuake.net) while our community often suffered from mass infighting (XQuake GPL pettiness, TLTQ.com, server admin wars, etc.). So we have a lot to learn from them.

Quake and Quakeworld are both Quake. It's just a network protocol difference and some physics differences, for the most part.

**Bank** · 04-03-2006, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Monster

wut the hell is a gimp?? and yeah I agree that QW sucks.

Look it up.

**Aquashark** · 04-04-2006, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Bank

Quakeworld is for retards and gimps.

(Apologies to any retards or gimps in the audience.)

yay.. i'm a retard!

or gimp?

what was it?

qw bashing is ridiculous

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