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  • An Episode 3 themed map

    Hello QuakeOne forum-goers. I have been working on a singleplayer map recently with the goal of emulating the style of Episode 3 and the gameplay and architecture of the original game as well. Started sometime during the summer of 2016, I have put about 2-3 weeks of work into this map. Currently, it is just one map but I would like to eventually do more. Hopefully a whole episode, but I won't make any promises!

    Anyway, here are some pictures to give you an idea of how it looks:








    I have been trying to get as close to the feeling of the original maps as possible without trying to be a direct replica. There is of course some of my own personal touches in there, but overall I'm pretty happy with how it came out

    If you are interested in playing it, you can download it here: (Updated on 2/26/17) https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...VdDcTcwYl8wY2M

    Older version: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...Dk5TUp6OGl0Rnc

    A friend of mine also recorded a playthrough of the level if you want to see the map in motion. This of course contains spoilers, so be warned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIHukZbwmGo (This is now outdated footage!)

    Thanks for looking - if you give it a try, let me know what you think!
    Last edited by MissBubbles; 02-26-2017, 08:28 PM.

  • #2
    Hi MissBubbles,
    It looks quite promising and the last picture reminds me of a fun Quake Painkeep map so that gets my vote . It does seem very true to the early look and feel of the game. I look forward to giving it a try this weekend Presumably it's Single Player only?

    In any event keep up the good work

    Kind regards
    Mr.Burns
    Mr.Burns
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mr.Burns View Post
      Hi MissBubbles,
      It looks quite promising and the last picture reminds me of a fun Quake Painkeep map so that gets my vote . It does seem very true to the early look and feel of the game. I look forward to giving it a try this weekend Presumably it's Single Player only?

      In any event keep up the good work

      Kind regards
      Mr.Burns
      Hi there! Thanks for looking at the map, I look forward to hearing your feedback.

      The map is designed for singleplayer but supports co-op play as well. The spawns are included and it's designed so that there should be no instances where the map can be broken and unbeatable (that I know of) if you decide to play co-op.

      There are no deathmatch spawns because that would require some further tweaking to allow for that mode of play to work out - but I may look into changing that later.

      I also forgot to mention that the map doesn't support difficulty levels. This is something I will also look into later, but for now I would recommend playing it on Hard or Nightmare.

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      • #4
        From the pictures, it looks like it belongs in episode 3. Very nice work in replicating the original look!

        I also forgot to mention that the map doesn't support difficulty levels. This is something I will also look into later, but for now I would recommend playing it on Hard or Nightmare.
        Personally, I'm a fan of tweaking the difficulty levels by adjusting the amount of ammo and armor, and not the monsters. If an area in a map needs a shambler, then it should have a shambler. If it's on easy mode, then the player has all the ammo he/she needs to take it down. If it's on hard/nightmare, then they better turn tail and run. Just an idea. It cuts down a lot of work for the mapper...all you need to worry about is setting spawnflags for items, and not monsters.

        There are no deathmatch spawns because that would require some further tweaking to allow for that mode of play to work out - but I may look into changing that later.
        Deathmatch is where it's at in my opinion. Unfortunately I missed the glory days of online quake...was too young to get on the internet in the late 90s. However, I wouldn't worry about tailoring it for DM. It's extra work, takes your focus off of a polished SP experience, and will likely never be played online because of the lack of an online community these days.

        Just downloaded it. I'll give this a try tomorrow. You may want to set up a Google Drive account to host downloads. That hosting site you're going through had a bunch of popups that bogged down my browser. Just a heads up. People will be more inclined to download your stuff if it's a smooth experience.
        'Replacement Player Models' Project

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        • #5
          I went ahead and played it tonight. Very nice job! It looks and plays like an old school quake map, but with a lot more polish.

          Things that are great:

          * brush-work and textures really captured the feel, while still looking better than the original quake maps.
          * level layout: very nice progression and use of keys.
          * lighting was spot on. A bit darker in some areas than the original maps would have been, which in my opinion is a good thing.
          * monster placement was good. You didn't over-do it (a lot of mappers can't help themselves, they throw shamblers and vores in every corner).
          * weapon progression was great. the super nailgun came in at just the right time.

          Things I would fix:

          * set the monster teleport triggers (the ones in the rooms that teleporting monsters start in) to the 'silent' spawnflag, so that players can't hear them through the walls of the playable area.
          * monsters can't walk on the complex geometry sections of floors (i.e. the shambler in that one central room). If I'm not mistaken, wrapping these sections of floor in a noclip brush should fix this. This could be a result of the engine I'm using however, as I think I saw the shambler walking on the bars in the youtube video you posted...
          * don't be afraid to make hard mode a little more difficult (like I said before, less ammo and health would do the trick). I played it on nightmare and only died once.
          * I could not for the life of me find the third secret...check and make sure it's accessible. If it is, then that's a well-hidden secret and I'll go look some more Nothing wrong with hard-to-find secrets.

          It's obvious you put a lot of thought into this map. I hope you keep making more. An entire episode in this style would be awesome. Keep it up!
          'Replacement Player Models' Project

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dutch View Post
            I went ahead and played it tonight. Very nice job! It looks and plays like an old school quake map, but with a lot more polish.

            Things that are great:

            * brush-work and textures really captured the feel, while still looking better than the original quake maps.
            * level layout: very nice progression and use of keys.
            * lighting was spot on. A bit darker in some areas than the original maps would have been, which in my opinion is a good thing.
            * monster placement was good. You didn't over-do it (a lot of mappers can't help themselves, they throw shamblers and vores in every corner).
            * weapon progression was great. the super nailgun came in at just the right time.

            Things I would fix:

            * set the monster teleport triggers (the ones in the rooms that teleporting monsters start in) to the 'silent' spawnflag, so that players can't hear them through the walls of the playable area.
            * monsters can't walk on the complex geometry sections of floors (i.e. the shambler in that one central room). If I'm not mistaken, wrapping these sections of floor in a noclip brush should fix this. This could be a result of the engine I'm using however, as I think I saw the shambler walking on the bars in the youtube video you posted...
            * don't be afraid to make hard mode a little more difficult (like I said before, less ammo and health would do the trick). I played it on nightmare and only died once.
            * I could not for the life of me find the third secret...check and make sure it's accessible. If it is, then that's a well-hidden secret and I'll go look some more Nothing wrong with hard-to-find secrets.

            It's obvious you put a lot of thought into this map. I hope you keep making more. An entire episode in this style would be awesome. Keep it up!
            Hi Dutch! Thank you for the feedback!

            I'm happy to hear that you felt the map progression was good

            I'll fix the monster teleports as you mentioned. As for the monsters not walking on complex geometry, I have tried to clip certain areas ( for example, the room with the Shambler ) and they still refuse to walk on it. I'm not sure how to get that working properly.

            One area, at the start of the map with the Death Knight and the bridge, originally did not work until after I removed the clipping and made some adjustments to the distance he had to take a step from solid ground onto the bars ( it was about 24 units, changed to 16 ) at which point he could then do it, but still with some wonky behavior.

            Good points about not changing the monsters based on difficulty. I see where you're coming from with that, because it can mess with the designers intended experience. I'll look into balancing the pickups for other difficulties soon, both for easy and hard.

            I am curious to hear which secrets you found and which ones you didn't. There is one secret that involves shooting and it is shrouded in darkness but it is still visible, just dim. I can see it on my monitor which uses default brightness settings, and I also run the game in Quakespasm. It can be hard to gauge what people can and can't see what with all the different ports they can play it on and how they affect the look of the game.

            Just downloaded it. I'll give this a try tomorrow. You may want to set up a Google Drive account to host downloads. That hosting site you're going through had a bunch of popups that bogged down my browser. Just a heads up. People will be more inclined to download your stuff if it's a smooth experience.
            Sorry to hear about that! I never know which place to upload files nowadays since some people like this and other people like that. I'll set up a Google Drive account soon and re-upload the map once it's been tweaked a bit.

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            • #7
              You bet! I really enjoyed playing it, I usually prefer mods over vanilla maps but your work here has reminded me how good the original game still is.

              As for the secrets, I found the megahealth platform and the area up above with the yellow armor, where the ogres are that shoot down at you. Couldn't find the last one though...I even no clipped around when I cleared the whole map lol. I'll keep looking!
              'Replacement Player Models' Project

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dutch View Post
                You bet! I really enjoyed playing it, I usually prefer mods over vanilla maps but your work here has reminded me how good the original game still is.

                As for the secrets, I found the megahealth platform and the area up above with the yellow armor, where the ogres are that shoot down at you. Couldn't find the last one though...I even no clipped around when I cleared the whole map lol. I'll keep looking!
                The final secret was a bit of an afterthought that I'm debating whether or not I want to keep. It wasn't built into the environment as well as the other two were. Once you find it let me know if you think I should keep it or not. It feels a little bit awkward to me but I dunno, some people might like it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MissBubbles View Post
                  The final secret was a bit of an afterthought that I'm debating whether or not I want to keep. It wasn't built into the environment as well as the other two were. Once you find it let me know if you think I should keep it or not. It feels a little bit awkward to me but I dunno, some people might like it.
                  Sounds like a plan...I'm off to look for it now. Hopefully will get back to ya soon...

                  EDIT: I had an idea to fix the monster-walking-on-complex-stuff problem... The clip brushes may only restrict clients (i.e. the players) and not other entities (like monsters). I'd have to look at the engine source to confirm this, but it's probably safe to assume that's the case. (You could also test this in a quick dummy map...just make a room with a monster and a player start, separated by a clip brush).

                  You could track down the .map files of the original quake maps that id software released under the GPL. Shouldn't be hard to google and find them. If you can't, let me know. I have them. Open up E3M4 (satan's dark delight) and look at how they did the complex floors at the beginning of the map (above the start, where that ogre runs around). My guess is the spacing between the brushes needs to be less than or equal to 16 quake units...again, you could look this up in the engine source as well, or just test different variations in a dummy map.
                  Last edited by Dutch; 02-08-2017, 03:34 AM.
                  'Replacement Player Models' Project

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Found it! Very clever, I like it. My first thought is that there's not much of a noticeable hint, but observant players will be able to find it. Tough secrets are fun. If you were to change it any, I would remove the exit side door, or add just a little bit more light on that door, so that the altered texture is a little easier to spot. Even then, only seasoned quake players would spot it. As it sits, it's fairly dark and looks a lot like a static decoration.

                    EDIT: I have 1 more suggestion (and this is only my personal preference, you could leave it as is and the map would still be great): the very start of the map is inaccessible once the player goes through the 1st teleport. I would add in a teleport that allows him/her to go back and retrieve any health or ammo that got left behind (and also for the sake of exploring). A neat way to do this would be to add another secret in the upper levels of the map that teleport the player to a secret room below near the start that contains ammo or something. Just an idea.
                    Last edited by Dutch; 02-08-2017, 04:54 AM.
                    'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                    • #11
                      Sorry to bog your thread with a bunch of comments, but I think I've figured out the monster-walking-on-bars problem. I just tested E3M4, and sure enough the ogres have the same problem your monsters are having, so this is not exclusive to your map (funny that it took me 20 years to realize this problem lol).

                      More than likely, any gap in the BSP greater than 16 units will not allow monsters to proceed forward. Clip brushes are ignored by monsters.

                      What this means is that if you space the bars 16 units apart, and the monster only runs forward (perpendicular to the bars), he will not get hung up. However, if he walks at an angle (not perpendicular to the bars), then the gap he has to cross is greater than 16 units (if you're familiar with trig, then his path across the bars would be the hypotenuse of a right triangle, which is greater than 16 units).

                      So how do you fix this? It can't be done 100%. Even if you spaced them 2 units apart, a monster could still choose a trajectory that is greater than 16 units if he runs just slightly angled past parallel to the bars.

                      But I'll bet if you shrink the spacing to 8 or 10 or so, the chances of him getting hung up decrease dramatically.

                      Another option is creating MDL models that inset to the floor with a SOLID_BBOX flag, but this is not practical as it would require external modelling (which you may or may not know how to do), requires you to configure your editor to accept a different .FGD file, the map would have to be packaged as a mod (meaning you'd need to learn how to code QuakeC), and players wouldn't be able to shoot through the gaps in the floor...long story short, I would just try shrinking the gaps lol
                      'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                      • #12
                        just cover the entire floor with a brush of nothing but palette 255 {texture

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MadGypsy View Post
                          just cover the entire floor with a brush of nothing but palette 255 {texture
                          Hot damn I didn't even think of that. Good idea.

                          MissBubbles, do you know how to add custom textures to a .wad file? Its pretty simple if you use a tool called TexMex. I can help you if you don't. Color 255 in the quake palette (it's like a lightish pink/purple) is not rendered by the engine. It's mainly used by sprites, but will also work on BSP brushes (like the hanging vines in Arcane Dimensions mod). You could add a mip texture to the original .wad with nothing but this color, effectively allowing you to make 'clip' brushes (so to speak) that will be honored by all entities. Keep in mind that it will still prevent players from shooting through the gaps in the floor though.
                          'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                          • #14
                            Your map looks awesome! Let's us know when it's in your preferred/finished state and I'll feature it on The Quake Grave.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dutch View Post
                              Hot damn I didn't even think of that. Good idea.

                              MissBubbles, do you know how to add custom textures to a .wad file? Its pretty simple if you use a tool called TexMex. I can help you if you don't. Color 255 in the quake palette (it's like a lightish pink/purple) is not rendered by the engine. It's mainly used by sprites, but will also work on BSP brushes (like the hanging vines in Arcane Dimensions mod). You could add a mip texture to the original .wad with nothing but this color, effectively allowing you to make 'clip' brushes (so to speak) that will be honored by all entities. Keep in mind that it will still prevent players from shooting through the gaps in the floor though.
                              I don't have any experience modding with Quake, just map making. I have a little bit of experience working with Slade for Doom and Heretic, so if it's anything like that I might know what I'm doing. I did download TexMex a while back along with some other tools to have handy if I ever needed to make any custom assets.

                              As for the clipping problem and monsters not walking onto the bars, I feel like I might just have to accept the fact that they don't want to cooperate with the map and work around this problem in future maps instead. If the fix that you suggest does indeed stop players from being able to shoot through the openings then I'd rather not hinder their experience with that awkwardness.

                              For now, I might play around with the map a little bit more and see about tweaking any of these trouble areas ( particularly with the Shambler. ) The area with the first teleporter and the grate in the ceiling felt kind of awkwardly put together to me so I may change that, but we'll see. I do like having an opening there though. Also what you mentioned earlier about a secret allowing players to go back to the start of the level is not a bad idea. I'll see if I can find a way to incorporate something like that!

                              Originally posted by ArrrCee View Post
                              Your map looks awesome! Let's us know when it's in your preferred/finished state and I'll feature it on The Quake Grave.
                              Hi ArrrCee! Thanks for checking it out! I looked up your channel and I'm excited that you're interested in giving the map a playthrough

                              I'll be sure to let you know when the map is in a polished enough state to be ready for you to play. As I write this message I'm about to start editing the item placements for difficulty levels as well as tweaking and polishing any other issues present in the map. Hopefully I will have an update out later tonight, so stay tuned!

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