what the fuck

[MadGypsy]

There is a big difference between being Christian and being Religious. Christian implies that you are "like Christ" and strive to act in a way that is similar to Christ. Religion is a man-made belief system based on man-made interpretations. To truly be christian you would have to remove religion from your life cause, Christ did not follow or espouse any religion. You can't be "like Christ" if you aren't anything like Christ. Jesus was a leader of men via the spirit of God, not a follower of doctrine.

@Richard Dawkins quote
Amen.

Just remember that the pre-catholics murdered all the christians, then compiled the bible. If I wanted to trick you, murdering everyone that can tell you the truth would be a good place to start. Pretending to uphold the people I just murdered would be the next step. Teaching you the "truth" would be the final one. I get a kick out of people that claim God will preserve his word when God didn't write a single one of them.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In other words, before there was anything there was a god with laws and the power to enforce them. To say God will preserve his word is nothing more than saying God will not change his laws. He apparently gave these laws to Moses and that is the one and only time God wrote anything. I find it ironic that Moses broke the original tablets and then rewrote them... first deception? I'd love to see a comparison between the first set of tablets and the copies.

My father and I argued the bible for about 20 years. His argument was something like "Regardless of how much of the bible MAY be bullshit, the teachings of Jesus are undeniably inspired by God." My argument was basically "The bible tells you not to pray to anything but God and chapters later we are supposed to pray in the name of a man. Jesus' words are only inspired by God if Jesus ever existed, of which nobody can prove. Satan's biggest trick is deceit. It seems to me that the biggest deception ever would be to have you praying to some God in the name of a man because some "wholesome" book (written/translated/compiled by men) told you to. Not to mention that the main key to heaven is to simply believe in Jesus... Accept Jesus (a man) as your lord and savior but don't put false idols before god..? Wha?"

If the bible was truly inspired by an all knowing, all powerful being it would be really fucking clear as to it's translation and it wouldn't contradict itself anywhere. Room for interpretation and contradiction are the devils tools.

[Davers]

The god delusion

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Excellent book, check it out sometime.

[Frost R17]

Please read with an open mind.

Well I fear these sort of arguments may end up here. In my opinion I don't feel religion holding me back like some other people might say. I been to science classes and became fascinated in them and my parents did not have any problems with it. Heck, they even did not have any problems with Halloween.

I understand where people are coming from about religion being a tool to manipulate and control others but it's not such tool, it CAN be a tool. I believe I remember reading a part of the Bible that warns us about "false prophets" who twists religion for that purpose, but it can happen in other ideologies and not just religion. Just look at the Westboro Baptist Church for example, they are lead by hatred against people like the Homosexuals (I don't know the appropriate name for them so forgive me), but all they are doing is giving Christianity a bad name and bad reputation. Besides, Christians are supposed to show kindness to others, even to people with lifestyle choices that Christians disagrees with. Meaning: I can disagree with Homosexuality, but I do not hate because -in my perspective- they are people too that have their own choices in life. As a Christian were supposed let other come to Christianity by their own account and not force it.

My best morale of the story is to respect each other's boundaries by being more understandable without being quick to assume or persecute other people.

[Adam]

@MG
That's fair, I am not trying to convert anyone to anything or personally attack anyone, it's just my opinion encased in a WTF thread.

When I was young, I was picked out to sing for the choir.
I did it because I liked singing. Specifically "All things bright and beautiful" but after a while I couldn't hack it, I wanted to be out playing with my mates, bombing down the street on a dodgy go-cart or seeing how far we could get jumping through neighbours' gardens. It was all good.

[MadGypsy]

@Adam - I'm with you for most of what you said but, you are inaccurate in one place.

"'Here's this book which tells us how to live our lives, but you shouldn't really believe the first bit."

The Bible is not a book. It is a library (written by men, translated by men and championed by men) so, yes, you maybe shouldn't believe the first bit and possibly many other bits. Actually you can probably throw the whole thing away cause that library has caused a lot more harm than good. People that believe in the same God can't even agree upon a translation of the scriptures. Not to mention that there are many translations that try to give deeper "good" meaning to scriptures like "dashing your child on the stones" ~Obviously God, didn't mean I should really throw my annoying brat off a cliff ~ Really? Are you really, really sure of that, cause that's exactly what the fuck it says to do. Isn't this the same God that told Abraham to kill his son and let his "chosen" people wander in the desert for 40 years?

I digress. The bible is a library.

For the record. I absolutely believe in God. I also believe in Jesus but, I think that is a conditioning that I will never break. I also believe that I have a personal relationship with God. I avoid the bible and organized religion like the plague...disorganized religion too. Actually, if "you" are trying to tell me anything at all about how and what to believe (spiritually), I can't even hear you and you wont get a second chance. I was raised Catholic til 8 or 9 and then United Pentecostal for about the next decade after that. I've learned everything from doing absolutely nothing but showing up in church once a year to magically appear in heaven to taking every single breath for Jesus. With beliefs so opposite revolving around the same God, I call it all BS.

funny thing - In UP churches generally women only wear long dresses and grow their hair quite long. Only problem, the dresses, although patterned modestly, generally make the women seem almost naked. The thin material hugs their every curve and the super long hair isn't helping. There are all these "Eve's" running around the church and we're supposed to think about Jesus? Seems counter-productive. My buddy told me (when we were like 16) that the only reason he prays in church is because all the women that are gonna lay hands on him . They think they are saving his soul and he's getting a woody!!! Praise Jesus!

[Adam]

Of the dumb stuff I've read on the internet that pretends to be an intellectual comment, that one is a Top 10 contender for dumbest faux intellectual comment ever. What answers do we have to anything that religion sought to fill?

1) Right/wrong? Fail.
2) Greater purpose? Fail.
3) Where everything came from? Fail.
4) Is there something after death? Fail.

Did you actually think that up yourself? I bet you didn't.

A book told you to think it. So you aren't even exercising your own brain, you are just doing what you say religions do, accepting something as true without proof.

I don't understand why, every time we discuss this, you seem to lack the self control to not resort to insulting and name calling.

I get the impression that all the things you accuse me of are your own failings and insecurities.

You float around picking and choosing questions out of a science book to what end? To pretend you know everything? You seem to have some kind of internal conflict, where you talk of science and how it can't prove anything, but then your default mode seems to side with religion that can prove even less. There have been many notable scholars who have lived with this conflict over the ages, it would explain a lot if you do share the same problem.

I don't know everything. I know very little and as you like to observe, that may be what makes you soooo upset, but to answer some of your rant:

Yes, I did write that first paragraph. Whether you think it right or wrong, it is my opinion (admittedly an opinion formed from reading more than one book, but we will get to that later) and hopefully, over time you can build up a resistance to other people not sharing your opinion. I hope so, as anger can severely shorten your lifespan (although I've only read that in textbooks and on the internet, so possibly that's not true either. You know, because words on a page are just someone else's science... uh... I mean, ideas).

So here we go on a wild ride where I will most likely disagree with you, so don't read any further if you're feeling sensitive, or worse still, drinking heavily.

Let's start with the overwhelming issue you like to bring up. What I write is my opinion, which is not to say it is fact, nor do I need to put footnotes to some kind of proof.
Either way, none of the questions that you bring up have been given conclusive answers from religion either. Boy, you were stretching there.

1.Of course we know the difference between right and wrong without religion. I am guessing you know too, unless you are writing this from a prison cell somewhere. That, to me is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard on the internet.

2.We (omg, it's my opinion again) don't have a higher purpose, apologies if that blows your mind or you can't live with that idea, just look away and pretend I never said anything. I will add yet again, religion can't prove any of the claims it makes either.

3. Really, you're going to try and pull that one out? Religion has zero proof of the claims it makes. From dust and from some guy's ribs? Living in a garden with a talking snake? (link to other origin myths). They tell a good story but come on man, we have theories that at least attempt to prove something and none of them are religious. And arguing that creation myths are 'just a myth' is also flawed. 'Here's this book which tells us how to live our lives, but you shouldn't really believe the first bit.' How logical is that?

4.Another unprovable tall story, considering nobody has survived death to tell the tale. I mean you could say that using medical science we have revived people, but nobody said they shook the hand of some creator and if they did would you believe them? I am sorry to say this but what I believe (here I go with another opinion for which I have no proof, and it may sound a little crazy), is that there isn't anything after death. We break down into soil and hopefully feed some other organism. The heaven and hell myths are just that, they were invented as a form of control: 'Be good now, and you will be rewarded after you leave this realm.'

It would be great if this really could be conclusively disproved because then we might have fewer young men (and some women) blowing themselves up due to promises of an idyllic afterlife.

Your last paragraph is weird at best and, I suppose, insulting at worst.
We all learn things from books, hopefully we can read more than one book without making our decision on what is to be believed. I would suggest reading many, as many as you can, then building an opinion from what you have learned from then.

I really wish you the best and hope you can get over your anger. I am really not in this as some kind of competition that can be won, but if you feel you need to be victorious, then fine.

You win.

[MadGypsy]

I believe the answer you are looking for is 42.

hint: HHGttG

[Baker]

Real question we have no idea:

1) A cell membrane can loosely be described as a "soap bubble" that has a tendency to let certain things in. Inside a cell are tons of complicated structures (organelles).

Now how did the first one happen? Maybe one day we will figure it out, but it is very complicated even if you look at the simplest life, which would probably be eukaryote (blue-green algae is a eukaryote).

2) Life on Earth depends on plants. Chlorophyll-A is the backbone of photosynthesis. Chlorophyll is a very complicated organic molecule.

Well -- wait --- organic generally means "no metals" --- and this weird molecule has **METAL** in it.

The magnesium is metal, and it is basically trapped in it.

Look at the molecular structure, note the Mg (magnesium) http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek...l/chlrphyl.gif

So ... given the statistical improbability of chlorophyll -- how did it first form?

3) The Big Bang is a neat and tidy creationist theory. Except ... for the Big Bang to be true ... we need dark energy, dark matter and more matter than we currently have. It also requires big gravitational waves from every direction which should have been discovered by now.

The very powerful James Webb Space Telescope will be launched in 2 years. They hope to look at the beginning of the Universe.

What instead of seeing primordial Big Bang stuff, if they just see more and more stars and galaxies as far as the new telescope's vastly enhanced resolution can see? The Big Bang might actually have to be scrapped and Steady State might need to be revisited. They have already found mega structures in the universe that should take trillions of years to form and a uniform speed for everything we see (also not supposed to happen).

We don't really know much of anything. Not nearly as much as some people think we do.

[Baker]

built to hold back questions that we didn't know the answers to.

Of the dumb stuff I've read on the internet that pretends to be an intellectual comment, that one is a Top 10 contender for dumbest faux intellectual comment ever. What answers do we have to anything that religion sought to fill?

1) Right/wrong? Fail.
2) Greater purpose? Fail.
3) Where everything came from? Fail.
4) Is there something after death? Fail.

Did you actually think that up yourself? I bet you didn't.

A book told you to think it. So you aren't even exercising your own brain, you are just doing what you say religions do, accepting something as true without proof.

[Adam]

Richard Dawkings, The God Delusion.
Good book

I agree, search out Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens too.
I would also recommend Alain De Botton for... reasons.

Religion is a man made wall we built to lean on, built to hold back questions that we didn't know the answers to.
The wall is no longer needed but for a lot of people its still a warm, safe place and they don't want to let it go.
In that way, I don't want to demolish or replace the wall, no, it can stay as a historical monument but I would like us to stop pretending that it still has a purpose.

...

Each term, my wife writes two letters, one for each child that attends primary school. The letters are written so that our children are not forced into religious education. The school is not a religious school, it's a standard state funded one.
And we don't have a problem with a class that teaches about religion from a global & historical viewpoint, that includes all the religions, their beliefs and how they came about.

But unfortunately, our local school has RE lessons that are just about christianity. It is indoctrination and it is paraded as fact.

So we have to write two letters (eventually it will be four), every single term because the schools default position (it would appear, it isn't written down anywhere) is that every child should be christian.

As the thread says, what the fuck?

[Davers]

It was probably something that occurred when being translated into European languages.

I think it was first published in Aramaic or Sumerian or similar then it was dragged into Latin then into German, English, Spanish etc.

Name localisation would make sense if you want to increase the attraction of your cult.

Apologies if you are religious, it's not personal. I just think religion should be dead by now and written about only in history books.

Richard Dawkings, The God Delusion.
Good book

[Baker]

I welcome any and all evolution of understanding.

Everything I need to know about knowledge came from Megatron.

Starscream: "Don't push me, Megatron, my desire for power is as great as yours!"
Megatron: "Power flows to the one who knows how. Desire alone is not enough."

So Megatron is explaining to Star Scream that power and success is an effect, not a cause. Megatron doesn't have power because he leads the Decepticons, he leads the Decepticons because he has strong leadership qualities which results in power.

The 3 part pilot episode of original Transformers cartoon is philosophically awesome. Not just that part ... there's more ...

a) Life doesn't favor losers. The Autobots may desire to be peaceful, but they must man up or Megatron is going to crush them. You may like peace, but you better be willing to fight to get it.

b) Starscream is a nerd. He is intelligent and overestimates himself. And never realizes he does not possess any leadership qualities.

c) Megatron demonstrates leadership by sparing Starscream from a failed mutiny, stating the Decepticon cause is more important than personal grudges. In otherwords, Megatron who is not compassionate is, however, goal oriented.

d) There is part where it looks like Megatron has won, and Optimus Prime is very angry. Optimus Prime isn't very graceful in defeat.

Knowledge, comfort, wealthy, education are important things.

But if you don't have your head in the game, they will make you weak --- in the mind, in spirit and cause your convictions to become misguided.

Natural selection (basically the same thing as evolution) says the weak lose every single time.

You can be knowledgeable and educated, but if you are weak in the mind and in spirit you aren't smart. Weakness isn't rewarded in this world.

Be a Megatron, don't be a Starscream!

(Usually, it takes beer for me to decide to do a post like this. However, I haven't had any beer --- but what got me thinking about this was how I find pampered Ivory Tower Intellectuals repugnant and without vigor. And I think the Starscream comparison fits very well.)

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I'm glad you enjoyed those links.

Two or 3 of them have the potential to wreck most of what we know about astronomy.

The one about vacuum interacting with light under rare circumstances has much potential to turn what we think we know on its head.

I welcome any and all evolution of understanding.

[Baker]

Stuff like this gives my brain a huge cerebral erection. Stimulating my mind begs that I should reciprocate.

I'm glad you enjoyed those links.

Two or 3 of them have the potential to wreck most of what we know about astronomy.

The one about vacuum interacting with light under rare circumstances has much potential to turn what we think we know on its head.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

Stuff like this gives my brain a huge cerebral erection. Stimulating my mind begs that I should reciprocate.

I was catching up on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, and I found this pretty damn interesting


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK2t27FNJmU[/ame]

Sarah Parcak found Tanis, a place I am led to believe used to be where the Ark of the Covenant was kept.