FBI Reopens Hillary Clinton Email Investigation

[Baker]

@Focalor --- nice Hitler history lesson there. Never quite knew the exact way Hitler ended up in control.

I have no idea who you were quoting but I doubt the syrian people deserved Bashar...

Haha, you are so very wrong.

I'm sorry, but the sheep definition of "deserve" does not apply in the real world. There is only one kind of deserve in the entire universe: force of action.

"Nice guys" finish last for a reason, because a "nice guy" may do no wrong, but that doesn't mean he does right either. In order for someone to be virtuous, you must do acts of good. A sheep person (aka nice guy) can never be virtuous for this reason.

In the real world, only the blood of heroes and tyrants stops evil. And the way to avoid those situations is by active high standards.

With active high standards, objectively applied, the unethical get caught, identified and removed from contention. Tolerating or accepting some level of malicious unethical activity is just feeding it. All evil must do to win is for "good men to do nothing".

You always get what you deserve. Nothing more, nothing less. There can be no other way.

[Mugwump]

@Baker While it is undoubtedly true in some cases, it's a rather simplistic generalization that people like the IRA, Native Americans or the French Resistance, among countless others, would strongly disagree with.

[Baker]

@Baker While it is undoubtedly true in some cases, it's a rather simplistic generalization that people like the IRA, Native Americans or the French Resistance, among countless others, would strongly disagree with.

The universe doesn't need anyone's agreement (or disagreement).

This is the human weakness of trying to humanize a cold brutal hostile universe. We have the luxuries provided by the hard working forebearers who made/discovered what we have today --- some of them did horrible-like things and some of them did horrible-like things to others (medical experiments).

(Yes and we reap the benefits of these horrible-like medical experiments too.)

And we may be isolated from the brutal conditions that built our comfortable world.

There are people thinking a bear or alligator care about their nice intentions when feeding them.

You know what term "objective truth" means, right?

An object truth merely is.

Native Americans had a rich and interesting culture. They also were humans and did good and evil like all the other humans (scalping, slavery, making prisoners run "the gauntlet").

Once they were no longer isolated from the rest of the world, they didn't have the numbers, the education, the technology or the organization/communication abilities much of the Northern Hemisphere had.

Whether it was China, Russia, the Japanese or the Europeans --- eventually their lack of equilibrium was going to be brought into balance with the rest of world.

The bad math was eventually going to catch up. It did.

/Irony would be humans being subjugated by an alien species in the near future. I think the Native Americans had a fascinating culture. I've always felt Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill was wrong, he was responsible for the "Trail of Tears".

Anyways -- You live in France. When they decided they didn't want terrible Kings and Queens running the show, they fixed that with the guillotine ... didn't they? Afterwards, it was a painful period for maybe 50 years (sacrifice! another virtue), but eventually it worked.

So I shouldn't have to tell you any of this

[Mugwump]

What I meant by "disagree" was that these people weren't apathetic one bit. They fought tooth and nail for their land, rights and freedom. According to your POV, that's not quite deserving the shit they were put into, is it?

Also, to say that the French Revolution worked is not exactly true either. The whole point of the Revolution was the abolition of privileges. Not really how it turned out in the end...

[Baker]

What I meant by "disagree" was that these people weren't apathetic one bit. They fought tooth and nail for their land, rights and freedom. According to your POV, that's not quite deserving the shit they were put into, is it?

I don't have a point-of-view. Notice I threw in "objective truth". Survival of the fittest or evolution, for instance, would be examples of objective truth.

I also threw in the weakness of humans to try to humanize everything.

From a scientific standpoint, you are doing both of those fallacies.

Emotions are what God gave the animals so they could make simple decisions. When a human chooses to "humanize" things that should not be "humanized", they are throwing away the gift of intelligence.

The most emotional people are criminals. They all think they are victims and think their feelings give them the right to do wrong to others.

Emotion isn't the source of truth of knowledge or strength -- it's the opposite -- emotion and "humanizing things" is ignorance and weakness and leads to entitlement and complacency and takes people away from knowledge.

[Focalor]

@Focalor --- nice Hitler history lesson there. Never quite knew the exact way Hitler ended up in control.

I'm one of the many people absolutely fascinated with WW2 history, particularly the Nazi's. There are fucking OBSCENE amounts of books and video documentaries about the topic to feed peoples obsessions with it. It's just a great story... although that almost makes it sound like I'm glorifying Nazi's, but I'm not. They seemed to have their shit together in the beginning. They quickly brought Germany back to flourishing prosperity after WW1 and the Great Depression. Everyone thought Hitler was a swell wonderful guy. I think Time magazine even named him their Man of the Year during the late 30's. Yeah, hindsights a bitch, haha! But slowly his mask came off, and his early successes convinced him that he could do no wrong, and one by one he made bad descisions that were disasterous for his war campaigns and for the German people. His story ended almost like Tony Montana in Scarface. People love a good powerful dramatic villain, don't ask me why.

But people have been so obsessed with Nazi history for so long that everyone can't help but puke out the Hitler-esque comparisons when discussing political figures they hate these days. For this reason, it would be nearly impossible for another person or party to duplicate Hitlers method of ascension to power. It SHOULDN'T have even happened. It was a crazy miracle that Hitler convinced the German parliament to back the Enabling Act. They were short-sighted in overlooking how long-sighted Hitler was going to be with the act. We have every indication that they didn't fully trust Hitler with that amout of responsibility... but they did it anyway. And every parliamentary politician in the world knows the story and the timeline, and it serves as a cautionary tale. They wouldn't make themselves guilty of the same mistake. By necessity, the worlds next Hitler will certainly be far more devious and cunning in EVERY way. So if anyones looking to recognize the "Hitler for Dummies" method occuring anywhere in politics by the numbers, they're gonna miss the REAL devil hiding in the details somewhere else.

Then again, it may not be hard at all to identify the next "most evil man in the world". Because if you really are an ice cold sociopathic killer, a straight up military coup is the fastest and most effective method to deal with political rivals and usurp the throne. South America's done that kinda shit plenty. I guess in this half of the world we prefer using bullets way more than words and arguments to make our major government restructurings. We some psycho motherfuckers!

[nahuel]

South America's done that kinda shit plenty.

yeah, Kissinger supported the metod in south america

[Mugwump]

I also threw in the weakness of humans to try to humanize everything. From a scientific standpoint, you are doing both of those fallacies. (...) When a human chooses to "humanize" things that should not be "humanized", they are throwing away the gift of intelligence.

Well, good job telling me I'm an idiot without actually saying it! Thanks. Anyway, to the point: seriously?! I mean, you can't take away the human element in human interactions. We're not talking about mankind vs. the "cold brutal hostile universe" here, but about humans vs. humans, so of course emotion comes into play, not only in the way we view the matter but also in the matter itself. Emotion is at the very core of it.

Also, why are you so bent on proving me wrong about it? It is deviating the discussion away from the point. And at any rate, you should take it out on Joseph de Maistre, the author of the "deserve" quote, and on Amebix, the dude (?) who quoted him in the first place, not on a guy who only replied to the quote.

Emotions are what God gave the animals

Yeah, uh, in your own words, "from a scientific standpoint", God remains to be proven real.

The most emotional people are criminals.

That's an, umm... interesting way to put it... Criminals often have anger issues for sure, but these guys also happen to be emotionally handicapped. They don't care about the effects of their actions on others and society.

Also keep in mind that your so-called "ignorance and weakness" is the driving force behind any social progress. Not bad for such a horrible thing as emotion...

And perhaps more importantly, I think you are plain wrong in trying to remove emotion from scientific thinking. Science without emotion produces the Mengeles of this world. Science without emotion produced the atomic bomb. Emotion is what keeps science sane.

[Baker]

I'm one of the many people absolutely fascinated with WW2 history, particularly the Nazi's. There are fucking OBSCENE amounts of books and video documentaries about the topic to feed peoples obsessions with it. It's just a great story...

WW2 always seemed to me like the dam breaking where the old attitudes of how countries worked finally met it's doom.

WW2 was an interesting situation. One country builds a ton of tanks and takes over another country basically in a day or 2. Rinse and repeat.

The British sure had a lot of courage to declare war on them. And then all the civilians in London got bombed at night on a regular basis.

[Baker]

Well, good job telling me I'm an idiot without actually saying it! Thanks. Anyway, to the point: seriously?

I was addressing your argument and your way of thinking.

You can take it a philosophical critique as it was intended.
Or you can take it personally, which it wasn't.

You get to decide which. Cool, isn't it?

! I mean, you can't take away the human element in human interactions. We're not talking about mankind vs. the "cold brutal hostile universe" here, but about humans vs. humans, so of course emotion comes into play, not only in the way we view the matter but also in the matter itself. Emotion is at the very core of it.

What makes living in France better than living in Pakistan or Sudan?

It's probably that if you make someone really mad in Pakistan or Sudan, someone is going to maybe die.

But in France, people restrain themselves because --- you know, the whole "I don't wanna go to jail" thing.

Do you think people in France behave better because they freely express their emotion or because they know how to suppress it?

Also, why are you so bent on proving me wrong about it? It is deviating the discussion away from the point. And at any rate, you should take it out on Joseph de Maistre, the author of the "deserve" quote, and on Amebix, the dude (?) who quoted him in the first place, not on a guy who only replied to the quote.

I'm not trying to prove you specifically wrong.

But maybe I reply more to you because after getting used to you I think you are a neat member of the community.

You occasionally bringing a DarkPlaces point-of-view to Func has been something I always thought was entertaining. I'm not very fond of the "I use just this <one engine>" and "know nothing about <other engine>" thing that tends to happen. And it isn't limited to any particular engine.

I view it as very closed minded. It didn't used to be that way as much And it makes the engines worse too -- because the user feedback isn't from diverse users.

Yeah, uh, in your own words, "from a scientific standpoint", God remains to be proven real.

If there is a God, I'm not sure whether or not people think he exists is very important to him.

And if there is a God, let us hope we aren't just incidental microbes inhabiting one of these rocky spheres he made.

[nahuel]

The most emotional people are criminals.

Mmm please, give me a paper, or a scientific source about this point. Very interesting


we have two elements
A: very emotional person
B: break the law


If this is real...

A causes B?
or
B causes A?

the facts are correlational, or causal?


Talking about violent emotions, caused by amygdala (such as anger or sexual desire), these brain impulses do not need a process of the frontal cortex, and under this influence you can make many foolish things ... But I think to say that all emotions come from this little gland is a bit reductionist, and this is wrong.

I get the impression that you speak on a point close to modern buddhism, or something like that view.

[Mugwump]

Or you can take it personally, which it wasn't.

Don't worry, I'm not the kind of guy who gets easily offended. I was just pointing out that it could be taken this way.

What makes living in France better than living in Pakistan or Sudan?

I don't know about that, never lived in Pakistan or Sudan.

because --- you know, the whole "I don't wanna go to jail" thing.

I think it's a bit simplistic to sum it up with that alone. What about the "don't do unto others" thing? Not everyone is an egotistical monster driven by his impulses and/or intolerance, not even in those countries.
Edit: Also, not allowing oneself to be driven by one's emotions is not exactly akin to suppressing these emotions.

But maybe I reply more to you because after getting used to you I think you are a neat member of the community.

Well thank you! I have a lot of respect for you despite our rocky start at Func_, precisely because of that open-minded attitude of yours.

I view it as very closed minded. It didn't used to be that way as much And it makes the engines worse too -- because the user feedback isn't from diverse users.

And here I am, wondering how guys like Kinn, OTP or Shambler would take this POV coming from a well-established and respected member of the community instead of a rookie like me... Here's hoping that Spike's QSS will shift mentalities a bit.

If there is a God, I'm not sure whether or not people think he exists is very important to him.

Yeah, that much is very obvious in the lack of divine interventions in human affairs.

[Baker]

And here I am, wondering how guys like Kinn, OTP or Shambler would take this POV

I like conservative engines far better just like those guys.

I think DarkPlaces adds diversity and many great and brilliant ideas in it.

But DarkPlaces has weaknesses too. Compatibility is bad and to me this is a severe flaw. It also cannot be made to look exactly like the original Quake.

Both of these mean DarkPlaces can be a replacement for the original Quake. Not for playing old mods. And no one ever knows when or where the incompatibilities will show up (read the Quoth 2.2 thread, as just 1 example among many). If you like the original Quake look, you cannot have it. So it is useless for someone wanting to experience Quake as it was shipped.

It is an excellent total conversion engine for things like Xonotic where backwards compatibility with the original Quake doesn't matter.

Yeah, that much is very obvious in the lack of divine interventions in human affairs.

Some takes a dog to the veterinarian ...
The veterinarian sticks a needle in the dog.

From the dog's point of view, the veterinarian was being mean.

The dog cannot understand what is going on.

But it was a vaccination for the betterment of the dog.

If there are higher level beings or a God, we would not be able to understand what they are doing or why.

[Dutch]

Some takes a dog to the veterinarian ...
The veterinarian sticks a needle in the dog.

From the dog's point of view, the veterinarian was being mean.

The dog cannot understand what is going on.

But it was a vaccination for the betterment of the dog.

If there are higher level beings or a God, we would not be able to understand what they are doing or why.

That's a great analogy, I like it. Well said.

[Mugwump]

I like conservative engines far better just like those guys.

Yeah, I've gathered that much reading your posts here and at Func_. But at least you're open to diversity.

Compatibility is bad and to me this is a severe flaw. It also cannot be made to look exactly like the original Quake.

Yes, the compatibility issues can be problematic, which is why I also have a QS install. I wish LordHavoc would work on fixing that. As for the look, I haven't tested it myself but according to the people here who have, I think HGSZ's retro shader would beg to differ.

Anyway, back on topic (we should remember this is a political thread). So I heard Election Day is closing in overseas. Tuesday, right? How are things shaping up over there? Do you guys think Trumple Underfoot has a chance to win, after all?