[Nicholas Steel]

HIP2M3: The Catacombs - QuakeWiki

I can't find a silver key, I can find a looong path that leads to nothing though! Seems the key is missing... thankfully you can rocket jump past the obstruction but that's cheating the intended route through the level.

I'm using the latest stable Darkplaces port. The cheat to give you a key doesn't work either, I type in to the console "Give Blue Key" or "give silver key" and nothing happens. I made sure sv_cheats 1 is in effect, other cheats like "god" and "give >insert ammo type here< #" work fine.

[Henry]

Nicholas Steel, please read this post: http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-hel...tml#post156504
It covers your issue as well. The key fell out of the map.
Funny thing is, you have this issue BECAUSE you are using the latest dp build.

[Nicholas Steel]

Okay.

[talisa]

in the latest DP builds several gameplay-fix cvars are disabled by default,
including one that causes that bug with objects that are placed to low to fall through the level when disabled

re-enable all these cvars, either through console or by adding them to your autoexec.cfg:
sv_gameplayfix_upwardvelocityclearsongroundflag "1"
sv_gameplayfix_setmodelrealbox "1"
sv_gameplayfix_droptofloorstartsolid "1"

and the key will be there again


.

on the topic of cheats:
there exist no cheats in quake to give you certain keys or weapons,
only a single cheat which gives you ALL weapons and keys and full ammo: 'impulse 9'

[ezzetabi]

It is possible I have this same problem with "Dry Sorrow" custom map? On easy the key is there, in Nightmare it is not and the level is impossible to finish.

[Nicholas Steel]

Okay I can confirm that the codes fix the key issue. Question: Why are there"Fixes" that are disabled? What is the reason behind disabling them...

[Spike]

basically, the real issue is elsewhere, and these are just workarounds that happen to fix this case, but may cause problems elsewhere.
which is why they're disabled by default - better to break things through bugs than to willfully screw over mods.

note: when the underlying code is rewritten, old bugs are vanquished and new bugs are spawned. often its as simple as two float operations happening in a different order, resulting in a different precision, and now the traceline fails and your key falls out of the world. sometimes its the compiler that re-orders the floating point operations.
it sucks, but that's the way it is.

[Henry]

The 3 gameplayfixes posted by talisa are copied from the smc mod config. Seven seemed to have tested all gameplayfixes that are necessary to play original quake and mission packs with dp.
The result are the 3 mentioned ones. Be aware that he used replacement contents during his testings that are used in the mod.
If you only play vanilla content, then you should be fine with only one gameplayfix: sv_gameplayfix_droptofloorstartsolid 1

I do not fully agree with Spike here. As an engine, that claims to support Quake and its commercial mods aka mission packs, should do this out of the box.
That means you should not need to switch cvars to make it better support Quake and prevent bugs.
Playing Quake should be the highest priority for a Quake engine. And bugs must be fixed.
You see yourself people having issues now. Because dp decided to disable its internal Quake bugfixes.
That was not the case when that one cvar was enabled before march 2013.
I fully agree with Spike for the other bugfixes though, as they are more related for replacements which are not part of original Quake. And if users decided to use them, they do it on their own risk.

DP has different collision detection, which seems the main reason for this bugfix.
Other engines have no silver key issue. It seems to be only dp. The reason behind it are slightly wrong positioned items that interfere with nearby walls or other entities. Other engines seem to handle this well.

That is a completely different story for modders and their personal mods. They either tested and developed their mod for one specific engine, which they usually name in their readme.
If a special engine like dp, needs bugfixes enabled or disabled, then you can set them just the way you want or need in your mod folders autoexec.cfg which is independent to original quake configs in id1 folder.
But the average quake player, who only want to play quake and its famous commercial mods, should not be forced to set cvars, which are not even in the engines option menu and therefore not known by those users.
Users, that play personal mods have normally a much better understanding of their used engine of choice and therefore can easily create autoexec files and set the individual bugfixes to support the individual mod in their mod folder.


@ ezzetabi
As already mentioned, this ‘item missing’ bug may also appear in dry sorrow map. Just like in hip2m3: a nearby ogre was interfering with the silver key. And if this ogre is not spawned in easy skill, then the key will not fall out of the map.
Try to add that one bugfix into your autoexec and see if it helps. I am almost sure it does.

@ Nicholas Steel
Everytime a new dp build is released, the change log is posted at dp website. Please read change log from 2013-03-01. It will tell you why.
And by the way, the silver key is not the only item that fall out of hypnotic maps. Armors and ammo near walls are also affected. But they go unnoticed as it is not a gamebreaker.

For me personally, I cannot understand why a bugfix is active for many years and helps people to play Quake without bugs. Then suddenly that is changed and people complain about bugs. That is difficult to understand. Even more because the bugfixes are not even accessible via ingame options menu. So they are invisible to the regular Quake player. How should they know?
But I start to repeat myself. Sorry.

[MadGypsy]

Well, all this stuff is free and we can't really claim to know the engine authors line of thinking when implementing these decisions against their mountain of code. It's all well and good to say the engine should support quake first but, you have to consider that the "quake" dp is primarily supporting is light years more advanced than vanilla quake. Also keep in mind that DP is probably more focused on Xonotic at this point and supporting quake, expansions, etc at all (regardless of method) is something LH is very kind to continue. He could easily have the attitude that he already built plenty of engines revisions that support quake and you are welcome to use those instead.

I'm actually surprised that any of these advanced engine authors are still using their energy to maintain across-the-board quake compatibility. It seems to be a waste of their talents and more of a pain in the ass - in my opinion - then it would be to advance their engines into a more modern approach that can be used to make the games of the future within a modern system. In a nostalgia sense it's great and everything but these guys could potentially be revolutionizing game making, as opposed to "putting lipstick on a pig" - so to speak. If that sounds krass, understand that I just said you (spike, LH, MH, probably Baker, etc) are too talented to "ride the coattails" of ancient tech.

[Nicholas Steel]

Hmm, those commands don't fix some of the saw blade traps in the 2nd mission pack's Blood Sacrifice map. The guillotine blades swinging like a pendulum in other levels works though, it's just these saw blades that don't.