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Unread 04-08-2011, 02:45 PM   #41 (permalink)
Chthon
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Hello LordHavoc,

thank you for posting here and try to help to find the reason for this issue.

The problem is:
When you enable offsetmapping:
"r_glsl_offsetmapping" "1"
and your external model has only a diffuse texture and NO offset texture (such as _norm),
your engine build´s from 13th february 2011 till today have the issue shown on the screens.

My-Key (creator of QRP´s normals) described the issue with these words:
I supose that newest builds have bug with parallax mapping and if texture doesn't have normalmap engine probably creates flat bumpmap. The easiest fix is to make "flat" normalmap without alpha channel.
It looks as he is right.
The models look like an external offset file with wrong alpha channel exists.
This would lead to the same effect as shown on the screens.

If you HAVE a external offset file (_norm), the model looks perfect as it should !

So the problem only occurs when using "r_glsl_offsetmapping" "1" and NO external offset file do exist.

In your DP builds until 3rd february 2011 this issue does NOT exist.
That is why I use this build (because I always enable r_glsl_offsetmapping, but dont have normals for every model I use)


Here are new screen comparisms (taken with beta2 build from 28th march 2011)
I deleted the external normal textures for the models to show you the result:
"r_glsl_offsetmapping" "1" / "r_glsl_offsetmapping" "0"

/
(please look at ammo box + weapon)

Thank you for your investigation LordHavoc.

Kind regards,
Seven


PS: I tried your autobuild from 8th april 2011 now too:
The offsetmapping feature seems really broken now.
The world textures dont show offset when using the "r_glsl_offsetmapping" "1" now (even though normals do exist).
The world textures offsetmapping still worked in beta2 from 28th march 2011.

Last edited by Seven; 04-08-2011 at 02:50 PM..
Unread 04-08-2011, 10:55 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Seven View Post
PS: I tried your autobuild from 8th april 2011 now too:
The offsetmapping feature seems really broken now.
The world textures dont show offset when using the "r_glsl_offsetmapping" "1" now (even though normals do exist).
The world textures offsetmapping still worked in beta2 from 28th march 2011.
There are 3 cvars involved:
r_glsl_offsetmapping - enable/disable offsetmapping on things that have it enabled
mod_noshader_default_offsetmapping - enable/disable offsetmapping on replacement textures
mod_q3shader_default_offsetmapping - enable/disable offsetmapping on q3 shaders

I am still unclear what your desired behavior is, the r_shadow_bumpscale_basetexture cvar is what is creating offsetmapping effects on the diffuse texture, this is overridden by any _bump.tga or _norm.tga that is found.

If you desire offsetmapping to never be enabled on basetexture (diffuse converted to normalmap), only enabled if bump or norm are present, I can do that.

After my changes on the 8th the offsetmapping is disabled on all quake textures (not replacement textures).

So if you could answer the following, perhaps we would be on the same page on intended behavior:
1. do you want offsetmapping on quake map textures (not replaced)?
2. do you want offsetmapping on quake model textures (not replaced)?
3. do you want offsetmapping on map replacement textures that lack _bump and _norm files?
4. do you want offsetmapping on model replacement textures that lack _bump and _norm files?
5. do you want normalmapping on quake map textures (not replaced)?
6. do you want normalmapping on quake model textures (not replaced)?
7. do you want normalmapping on map replacement textures that lack _bump and _norm files?
8. do you want normalmapping on model replacement textures that lack _bump and _norm files?

I can cvar all of these things, I'm more curious about defaults.
Unread 04-09-2011, 02:17 AM   #43 (permalink)
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"If you desire offsetmapping to never be enabled on basetexture (diffuse converted to normalmap), only enabled if bump or norm are present, I can do that."

I think that'd be the best option. I myself didn't notice the bug Seven was having until I ported the Dopefish from Daikatana to replace the Rotfish - and it looked distorted until I made a 8x8 texture for the normal map which was just solid green.
The idea was great, however it needs to have a cvar for it to be on or off and then split into the categories you mentioned.
I myself would say anything model related - should be off by default. Map textures can go either way, I would say to leave off by default too. People generally use Darkplaces to get the High Def Quake - so they'd (usually) be replacing the textures.

One thing I would do though is add the 8 options to the options menu - there needs a update as there's many options that go unnoticed as they don't know it exsists as it's absent in the menu.
Unread 04-09-2011, 05:25 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Hello LordHavoc,

Thank you very much for your answer.

In my opinion it makes no sense to have offset- or normalmapping on default ID1 Quake models/textures.
There are no offset-files for them in orig. Quake.
So you would only "fake" an existing offset texture.
The visuals will be not good

Only if external offset files (_norm or _bump) are available, then they should be used, when enabling "r_glsl_offsetmapping" "1".
This is exactly the way it was until 3rd february 2011 build.

After this date things changed. In my opinion to a not good way.
"Faking" normal textures for a diffuse (external or original ID1) texture will always result in a not good visual (see screen in my post #41 above).
Look how long it takes to create a external normal texture by hand.
An automated software emulation will never reach its visual.
I know there are other engines, that "try" to do just this.
But the visual is always not good in my opinion.


So going back to the way things was handled till 3rd february is my favorite:
If you dont have any external offset textures and enable "r_glsl_offsetmapping" "1",
you should not see any difference to "r_glsl_offsetmapping" "0".


Maybe I am completely wrong with my opinion.
But working on visual enhancements for DarkPlaces for a very long time now,
makes me believe that this is the best solution.

Thank you for your time reading this.

Best wishes,
Seven

Last edited by Seven; 04-09-2011 at 06:21 AM..
Unread 04-09-2011, 06:19 AM   #45 (permalink)
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... another thing that came to my mind (refering to OoPpEe´s post above).

The main issue, people have when using DP is, that some quite important options are not available in the in-game menu.

Offsetmapping is one important example.

I suggest having suboptions for it as follows:
- enable offsetmapping
--- emulate offset textures
--- enable reliefmapping


One last word regarding the thing I wrote about "emulated offset textures" in my post above:
Amazing external normal textures are available from QRP and Rygel.
Installing them is very easy.
Together with external diffuse textures from QRP or Rygel they make a nice visual.
The need for emulated offset textures are in my opinion not necessary.
But if people want them (if they dont have external ones), they can enable the suboption I described above.
Anyway, emulating offset textures for stock ID1 textures seems quite overdone, because of the low resolution.

Kind regards,
Seven
Unread 04-30-2011, 06:00 AM   #46 (permalink)
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new builds uploaded...the newest version gave me 10 more fps in timedemo results.
Unread 05-02-2011, 01:23 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Seanstar,

the new build you mentioned 2 days ago, was an autobuild.
DarkPlaces is continuously developed. So autobuilds are made (uploaded) almost every day.


LordHavoc wrote in the above post on 9th april:
After my changes on the 8th the offsetmapping is disabled on all quake textures (not replacement textures).
But I cannot activate offsetmapping for external (replacement) textures as well.


A new beta build has been made on the 1st may (yesterday).
Unfortunately offsetmapping is still deactivated.

I compared the FPS (without offsetmapping) with the build from 3rd february.
They are identical.
So, if anybody wants offsetmapping, it makes more sense to use the build from 3rd february.


Can anybody activate offsetmapping with the newest beta from yesterday ?

Regards,
Seven
Unread 05-18-2011, 09:18 AM   #48 (permalink)
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New beta released today, get it here: darkplacesenginewindowsonly20110518beta1.zip
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Unread 05-18-2011, 10:09 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Thank you for mentioning Spinvis.

I´d like to mention though that the performance/fps is worse/less compared to february 3rd build.
As well as the offsetmapping/parallax mapping is still deactivated.
Unread 05-20-2011, 05:26 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Seven, I use fast and stable autobuild_20110203, thanks for the advice Is it still the best in your opinion?

LordHavoc, I tried different dp builds, different nvidia drivers, but always had an issue:
At stable 60 FPS with VSync DP goes with small, but very noticable dalays, while at 75Hz/FPS it runs smooth. Unfortunately, my monitor, like most modern casual screens, does not support FullHD res at more then 60Hz. So, I played around with DP cvars (CPU/FPS limit options) - got no results. Finally, found the "solution" - disabled OpenGL extinsions for DP in nvidia drivers - DP ran smooth at 60Hz, but that turned off lot's of beauty (parallax mapping, other shader effects).
So, is there the way to make DP with all GL features run lag-free at 60Hz?

Thanks for your great contribution to the Quake evolution!
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