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Go Back Home > Forums > Quake Talk > Single Player > Well of Lost Souls Search Forums

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Unread 03-15-2017, 02:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Alright here's a new version of the map and here's what I've done with it:

Download here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_...2ZuQ3Nic2s0MVE

- Monster placements have been tweaked across all difficulty settings. In brief, Hard has some new Death Knights, Normal has stayed mostly the same, and Easy has even fewer monsters now. I know nobody plays Easy but hey, it's there anyway.

- Item placements have been adjusted slightly to account for new map changes, the most notable being the swapping of the Double Barrel with the Grenade Launcher. The Grenade Launcher is now introduced after the cage trap, on the lift that had the Gold Key. The Gold Key now sits where the Double Barrel originally was, behind the Vore.

- Detail brushwork has been polished in various areas, particularly the hallway with the Fiend; he should no longer bump his head on the ceiling and also be able to follow you into the spike trap if he feels like it.

Hopefully with these changes it won't be too frustrating to have to hold out for the Grenade Launcher until after the cage trap, but I feel like the added intensity might make it more fun, and not to mention making the beginning of the level a bit tougher too.
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Unread 03-19-2017, 11:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Now with power, internet and time back on my side, I present Well of Lost Souls on The Quake Grave! =)

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Unread 03-19-2017, 10:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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There is no doubt that MissBubbles has some pretty good mapping chops but, I would like to say, as an observation, that more attention should be put on lighting. I know first-hand that lighting is arguably the hardest part so, I'm not trying to criticize. The maps definitely have enough light but, the shadows are really sloppy (at least in the latest map). I also realize that some of the sloppiness is just "how it is" under vanilla quake settings but, not all of it.

I can actually give one very clear example. @ the 9:37 mark of Arcee's video there is a zombie on a fully lit wall but, the zombie is completely blacked out. I noticed other things but, I'm not trying to make an expose' of lighting mistakes for MissBubbles map. This is just meant as a "heads up" from someone with really sharp eyes for detail.
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Last edited by MadGypsy; 03-19-2017 at 10:09 PM..
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Unread 03-19-2017, 10:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks for the playthrough ArrrCee! I appreciate you featuring my maps on the Quake Grave

Originally Posted by MadGypsy View Post
There is no doubt that MissBubbles has some pretty good mapping chops but, I would like to say, as an observation, that more attention should be put on lighting. I know first-hand that lighting is arguably the hardest part so, I'm not trying to criticize. The maps definitely have enough light but, the shadows are really sloppy (at least in the latest map). I also realize that some of the sloppiness is just "how it is" under vanilla quake settings but, not all of it.

I can actually give one very clear example. @ the 9:37 mark of Arcee's video there is a zombie on a fully lit wall but, the zombie is completely blacked out. I noticed other things but, I'm not trying to make an expose' of lighting mistakes for MissBubbles map. This is just meant as a "heads up" from someone with really sharp eyes for detail.
Thanks MadGypsy! You're definitely right about the lighting, It's not my strong suit. When I got back into Quake mapping with TrenchBroom last year, I was very frustrated when it came to working with lighting. I understand that there seems to be quite a bit of depth to what you can do with the entities, compared to what id did which was simply just adjust the light value and that was it. For the most part, with this map, I mimicked how they handled things, occasionally adding delay to some of the lights. However, I don't really know what I'm doing , I just play with it until it looks good enough. But yeah, your point about the shadows being sloppy is true. In some areas they are intentionally left that way so I can hide monsters in them; a trick that Sandy often uses in his own maps. In order to do this, I had to leave the shadows a bit harsh in some areas to ensure that on everyones monitors they are actually hidden. From what I can tell, ArrrCee plays Quake with a much higher brightness setting than I do, which honestly does bring out a bit of the ugliness in my map's lighting. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to make an excuse for myself with that last comment, but when you play with your brightness up it doesn't really do the map justice.

It's something I would like to improve on in the future if/when I decide to move away from doing id style maps. But for now, I'm fairly happy with how the maps look.
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Unread 03-19-2017, 11:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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@make excuses

I don't take it like that at all. I know for a fact that light is a nightmare and it goes without saying that changing brightness will F up just about any map. Really, Arcee needs to adjust his settings, all those textures were washed-out in his video.

Personally, I think you are a really good mapper. That in itself is a huge accomplishment. Have you tried lighting with tyrUtils? It makes lighting much easier. I don't know if you use radiant but, if you do, I rewired the ent file to contain the entire tyrUtils set of options. Instead of having to hand type the switches in a custom box, every single one is already in the entity inspector and I even went as far as to include the docs for every option as well.

If this will help you I can search around for it. It is probably on my google drive. More thoroughly, I created an entire quake gamepack for radiant that is basically a "just go" solution for mapping and building with tyrUtils. I could point you to that instead if you like. Really they are sort of the same thing. One is the gamepack and the other is just the ent from my gamepack.

edit: woops I missed the part where you stated that you use trenchbroom. I don't think my ent will work in trenchbroom. Things may have changed but, a while back I tried to change ent/fgd in trenchbroom and I couldn't find anything that resembled an option to do that. However, if you know how to do it I can make things happen for you. If it's fgd I need to spin one up for you cause my fgd version is not for latest tyrUtils BUT, fgd allows you to make a code group and then simply reference it everywhere you want it so, adding in the new features would be super easy. I just need to append to one spot.

also... I don't know if you are aware of this but, there is also anti-light. I can't remember how to do it but, basically you can make a light that erases light. This means you could light your level properly and then the spots where you want to hide something you could add antilight and have more control over the influence it has on the whole. You should definitely play with this possibility if nothing else.
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Last edited by MadGypsy; 03-19-2017 at 11:24 PM..
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Unread 03-19-2017, 11:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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here is a link to the entire gamepack. If you would like the .ent or .fgd they are located in

netradiant/virtuoso_q1.game/virtuoso

This is for tyrUtils 0.15.5 there may be a newer version but, this is already way more than you need for id lighting style. I hope and pray that I actually upgraded the fgd for this version. I have a bad feeling I only did the ent. However, that means the fgd would be for 0.15.4 which is still way more than you need. If this is too half-ass for you let me know and I will make an ent and fgd for the absolute latest tyrUtils with not a single dot missing.

As it stands, that link is actually a completely portable and 99% fully setup radiant with everything included and ready to go. You only need to do 2 or 3 little simple steps that I can't guess for you to make it 100% ready. The instructions are in the README and they really are incredibly small and simple steps.

As an example, the hardest step is to open some file I specify and change "fteqw.exe" to the name of your engine. If you are using fteqw.exe you don't even have to do that step. I'm a big fan of spike and fte so I always try to support him in stuff like this. ACtually if I'm not mistaken, if you don't do my steps, you gonna use fteqw... lol! I'm pretty sure I included it and forced it.
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Last edited by MadGypsy; 03-19-2017 at 11:51 PM..
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