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  • #1

    Quake1 copyright question

    I think I saw another thread somewhere around here where someone posted a Quake1 pak file or something that might've had content from the pak0 or pak1 files from Quake. Someone later removed the link because I guess it contained files from the original game. I can't find it again, so I can't be totally sure what I was looking at or what specific files they were. But it got me thinking about a pak file I made several years ago for Quake2 that had sounds and images taken directly from Quake1. It was so long ago that I can't completely recall, but I do remember that I didn't have a copy of Quake1 so what I think I did was I either downloaded a full version from a website for free (basically illegal), or I downloaded a torrent of the full version for free (also illegal) and then used files from it. I'm almost positive that I didn't obtain a shareware copy of Quake1.

    Anyway, I took the Q2 pak in question off my site which is owned and paid for by the dude who runs Tastyspleen.net. He gives out free webspace to players who want to host Q2 related things. Since he's nice enough to never charge me for the webspace, I figured it would be nice of ME not to post copyrighted stuff on webspace he owns that might get him into trouble.

    But he mentioned to me that all the same sounds and images which were taken from Q1 to use in my Q2 pak can also be found in the shareware version of Q1. Anyway, this is what he said:

    Originally posted by Quadz
    Interesting. I'm not a lawyer, so this definitely isn't legal advice. But I guess I'd thought any sounds/textures from Q1 shareware (and/or Q1test) which are already freely downloadable from id Software's FTP site, are probably something id would be cool with being mixed into fan-made nonprofit paks for another one of their games (i.e. Q2.)

    ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/quake/

    I suppose if they were sounds or textures that didn't exist in the shareware version, that might be more of an issue? But it's not clear to me how borrowing (repackaging) freely downloadable Q1 content for use in Q2 would be causing any harm, economic or otherwise.
    And this is the page where I used to have the pak in question. There's preview pictures of all the images utilized in the pak file, but unfortunately I can't exactly give you any examples of the sounds without reposting the pak.

    Focalor's Lair - Focalor's Q1 pak for Quake2

    I'm pretty sure he's correct that since all the sounds and images can also be found in Q1 shareware that it's totally kosher to post it online. But I'd rather be more sure than "pretty sure". So maybe you guys know more about this than I do. Any suggestions?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I haven't really dug into the legality behind shareware, but to my understanding all of the works contained in shareware are still proprietary, meaning they are legally owned by the company still (in this case, id). I would imagine this means the works within the shareware should only be distributed with full copies of the shareware.

    Some of the resources from Quake are straight-up GPL now, meaning that you can totally alter them, or re-package them, but the source must be provided. Examples of this are all of the original maps (maybe the textures, too? since the .wad is compiled into the map...I dunno), and the source code.

    Models and sounds were never GPL'd (especially the sounds and music...these were not created by id themselves, unlike the models). Meaning they cannot be distributed legally. You're really not even supposed to re-make these resources in similar design (much like the new quake guy model I made), but it's been happening so long now without legal action from id that I doubt they really care.

    How the shareware (pak1) side of that fits in, I'm really not sure. But it's probably a safe bet not to host these resources for download. Basically, it seems like there's a fuzzy line between what you can get away with and what you can't. If you re-create Quake, in the style of Quake, you're going to likely hear from a legal team. If you straight-up offer Quake for free, you're bound to hear from a legal team. Individual resources here and there? Probably never hear from anybody because it's been happening for awhile now.
    'Replacement Player Models' Project

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    • #3
      IANAL but I agree with Dutch. If stuff from Shareware was deemed legal to use elsewhere, there'd be nothing stopping anyone from recreating the Quake game using the Quake 1 models and sounds. Just because they give it away via Shareware does not remove the copyrights and ownership of the content. It's still owned and proprietary content of id Software.

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      • #4
        If I'm not mistaken it goes beyond that even. DERIVATIVE WORKS... you can't even (p/h)ost stuff that is too similar to the original content (for money). I don't think they can do crap if you are giving a derivative work away for free.

        lol @ IANAL - is that really a thing or just assumed to be easy enough to figure out?

        I Ain't (k)Nowledgeable About Legalities??...jk
        Last edited by MadGypsy; 07-28-2016, 01:59 PM.
        http://www.nextgenquake.com

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        • #5
          Copyright Laws for Freeware and Shareware | LegalZoom Legal Info

          What are derivative works under copyright law

          Of course, actually researching these laws instead of expecting a bunch of gamers to know them is always smart.

          "Hey, Quakeone, I'm facing a perjury trial, what do I do?".....LOL!
          http://www.nextgenquake.com

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          • #6
            I actually looked at both of those same pages as well as several others on other sites before I posted here. I didn't really feel that they provided a clear enough answer. The guy who runs Tastyspleen.net where I had the file hosted is a software and game developer himself, so I assume he has a pretty good idea about what's okay and what's not. He seemed to think it was pretty harmless. Then again, like he says, he ain't a lawyer.

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            • #7
              the game source is gpl, the engine source is gpl. everything else no; that is copyright material. EVEN the textures used in the shareware maps, no.

              again the quakeC source yes, the engine code yes; IS GPL. meaning you can sell it, BUT you must provide the source code on request.

              all models, textures, and sounds, (precompiled maps) are not gpl.

              they have released the \.map files witout textures to the GPL, yet u need to compile them with new textures to release any updates

              https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-lic...pl-2.0.en.html
              Last edited by R00k; 07-28-2016, 05:51 PM.
              www.quakeone.com/qrack | www.quakeone.com/cax| http://en.twitch.tv/sputnikutah

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              • #8
                Basically,

                The source code is GPL, so can be edited, used in your own work & distributed.

                The assets are not.

                Would you download the new Doom demo and just use the assets from that?

                Just because Quake is old doesn't give you free rein to do what you want.
                Username : Atomic Robokid on Steam

                Please check out my Quake made things:

                https://www.indiedb.com/games/run-over
                https://adam-freeman.itch.io/hazard
                https://adam-freeman.itch.io/diver
                https://adam-freeman.itch.io/beyond

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                • #9
                  The thing is... I never have and never will offer this particular pak file (or any others) for any fee or profit. I'm just a fan of the games who makes things like this for fun. So the whole "repackage and resell" thing doesn't accurately describe me. The "repackage" part is entirely accurate though, and that's why I took it down before asking anyones opinion.

                  I tried looking for a license txt for a shareware version of the game, but I couldn't find one. I did find what could possibly be an accurate copy of the license posted on some Quakewiki page, and the wording in it, particularly words like "decompile", lead me to believe that a legal team could reasonably claim that I have done just that. Like Dutch said, it's fuzzy. I could probably keep it up and no one would bother with taking action. Then again... maybe not. Maybe isn't a good answer, ya know? Like when you ask a hooker, "Do you have herpes?", nobody wants to hear, "...Maybe."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by R00k View Post
                    they have released the \.map files witout textures to the GPL, yet u need to compile them with new textures to release any updates
                    That makes sense. I forgot they GPL'd the .map files, not the .bsp files.

                    Here's a thought: are all of the fan-made maps using the original textures technically illegal? Is there a way to compile a .wad file from a bsp?
                    'Replacement Player Models' Project

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                    • #11
                      I appreciate all the input and opinions, guys.

                      Since the legality of it seems to lay somewhere between the territories of "illegal" and "questionable", I've made the decision to continue leaving the file down for good. Again, thanks for the help.

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                      • #12
                        Dutch, taking the textures out of a .bsp is easy with qART, but since they were never released under GPL, they're not supposed to be used. Using them in new or derivative maps is probably not technically legal, but I'm sure map designers have been stealing the textures since '96 without issue. What would grab someone's attention is remaking the original maps using the taken textures and releasing them. There have been projects to release the maps with remade textures... but I don't know what came of them.

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