Quake Remodeling Project

[Baker]

OoPpEe and My-Key intend to revive the Remodeling Project. However they need your help to make a team as this job is just too large for 2 people.

If you can:

Model - make the mesh and "rig" it so it's ready to animate.
Animate - take a model and do animations.
UV Mapping - "Unwrap" a model so the model is ready to texture.
Texture - Skin the model once it's unwrapped (this also includes Normal mapping, etc.)
Draw - Concept arts, a great model starts with this.

All those skills are not needed. If you can do even just one - you'd be a huge asset to their team.

Additional Note: Please welcome the newest addition to the QuakeOne.com moderator team, Rampage His contributions to the community include the Grunt Vault and being a hardcore CTF/DM/CA player willing to share his knowledge and 4-year member of the site.

[foq]

I have no such skills, but I can cheer you on from the sidelines. It seems to me all we need is powerups and armor. I'd like to see a decent faithful weapons pack too, basically just a high-res re-render. The existing health, ammo, and exploding boxes models are already awesome.

[LambentHammerBurst]

Well we do have some very nice Powerups and Armor done already by Ruohis.
I do think though with a large enough team - we can get a complete remodel. The issue with using present models - is different styles.
Like using my Moo-Player-Model-Based Grunt with Reforged's Enforcer - they just don't look good side by side at all. Using my Generations based Enforcer by Tabun - they match as they are the same "style".
It's a common issue in remodeling projects - you have separate users each making content on their own - all end up great. However when used together - the content looks "mashed together". Having various users work together and having all take part in each model - you avoid that issue.

Although I myself, I'd love for us to start with the monsters as they are the ones with little remodels. I've yet to see a remodel (released) of the Knight, Tarbaby, Rottweiler, Death Knight, Chthon, Shub and all of the MP monsters.

[Bloodshot]

I am currently learning how to model, its quite fun and I am working on a fairly accurate M4. Maybe when I learn more down the line I can help out, and I'd be glad to.

[MadGypsy]

If you have a front and side view "concept art" I can model whatever you want. This is what I can do with no references or concepts what-so-ever. I started with half a cube and a mirror modifier. The "eye-balls" are place holders and I haven't applied the subsurf (or sculpted the finer details) yet.

Edge Loop example of my latest (unfinished) model:


A couple of orthographic shots in object mode:


Is my model awesome and perfect? Of course not but, I'm also not finished and haven't bothered to re-route some edge loops yet. I have a few poles and 1 triangle (2 with the mirror), but I'm not really worried about it cause this is the high poly version to create my normal map. As long as my low poly stays away from tri's, poles and n-gons it will all be fine. I know quake uses triangulated models but this model is for the Blender Game Engine - which hates tri's and n-gons.

My workflow to finish this model will be to:

1) Finish him naked
2) Apply the subsurf
3) Model all the armor on a separate layer
4) Join all the model parts and hollow it out
5) make a base texture
6) re-topo a lower poly duplicate
7) cut seams on the low poly and do an object to object normal map
8|) refine the texture (as well as get a better education for creating textures - my textures are not very good ATM)
9) add an armature
10) animate

**obviously these steps are dumbed down

I taught myself all of this crap...lol

Gypsy

[megalodon]

I wonder if people know what they are doing? The model in that pic is not going to be suitable for the Q1 engine. And even if it would, nobody would like it 'cause it would probably kill your fps.

You could try Q3 low-poly level at best I think. Check what the poly limit is exactly for Q1. With a modern engine you can do higher res, but ... it should still be low-poly.

And low-poly is an art in itself 'cause you must think in triangles, not quads. This means NO edge loops and quads like that for quake models cause it's not efficient - it drives up the polycount like crazy. Check the polycount.com forums, the 'low-poly challenge' section. Those guys know what they are doing. High res models are OK if you're planning on using the Doom3 engine, or perhaps DP (?), but even higher res models for games should be modeled efficiently (triangles not quads). Open a Q1/Q2/Q3 model in an editor and you'll see what I mean. All triangles.

I also don't understand why you'd want super high res models anyway, 'cause you're still bound to the exact amount of animation frames of the original ID models. Unless you want to make a mod (and change the QC code). So even if a high res Shambler would work, you'll still have 6 frames for a run sequence (usually). And wouldn't that look dumb? A high res model, using 6 frames for a run sequence? What's the point?

Don't get me wrong, I love how the Q1 community is always being busy with stuff, but when it comes to modeling, you should only get ppl involved who know how to create a nice, efficient, triangular mesh.

So why not ask ppl from Polycount.com? They currently have this TRON challenge, and perhaps you could get them to model Q1 monsters. They might love to do it and you'd have kick ass, usable stuff, 'cause there are many pro's there that do this on the side.
Low Poly Challenge - Polycount Forum

[LambentHammerBurst]

Never said anything about "super high res". Take a look at the Shambler Castle's monsters I ported. HUGE improvement over the originals and the textures are only 512x512.
Good modeling + good textures = a great model which looks ALOT higher poly than it actually is.

As "High Res Shambler" remark, try this model:
http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-mod...-shambler.html
Post back with your opinion afterwords.

The purpose is improvement. Even with 6 frames of animation - you can still make it look good. It's a challenge but highly doable. The Shambler I linked above, in the same thread I released a furry skin for it and still use that today. I've had no issues with the animation of the model - it's perfect imho.

[megalodon]

Never said anything about "super high res". Take a look at the Shambler Castle's monsters I ported. HUGE improvement over the originals and the textures are only 512x512.
Good modeling + good textures = a great model which looks ALOT higher poly than it actually is.

As "High Res Shambler" remark, try this model:
http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-mod...-shambler.html
Post back with your opinion afterwords.

The purpose is improvement. Even with 6 frames of animation - you can still make it look good. It's a challenge but highly doable. The Shambler I linked above, in the same thread I released a furry skin for it and still use that today. I've had no issues with the animation of the model - it's perfect imho.

Yes, it looks good, obviously. But it does state that you need the DP engine, which is exactly what I expected. So it won't work with Fitzquake, Ezquake, Qrack, etc?

I think this stuff is gonna be used by a very small number of people. Ofcourse, I can imagine that you're still proud on a creation like that, but I'll never use DP 'cause it performs like crap in comparison with other engines, even when absolutely everything is turned off (oldschool/faithful settings). Even when I turn on eyecandy in Qrack it out-performs DP for some reason.

[osjclatchford]

...Even when I turn on eyecandy in Qrack it out-performs DP for some reason.

Well, this is because Darkplaces, like all 'home-made' engines is not fully optimized (yet).
Let alone how many more advanced calulations per-second the engine is having to churn out (to give rt-lighting etc...) compared to many of the others.
actually its still really a beta but (as the latest update proves) is getting better all the time, performance wise...
It runs slow on mine too but the latest version offers a substantial leap in fps count over the previous editions!

patience is, I guess, a virtue but I'm afraid that monsters like said shambler are likely to be for dp only, as they're just too high-poly to run otherwise (let alone relying on gloss/luma/norm's to complete the effect)...

Then again, take the example of qrf team; lo-poly models + high-res and cleverly designed skins = awesome effect, but thats not what the project in this thread is about right?

[LambentHammerBurst]

Well the whole DP - in my opinion is for Single Player use - which Monsters only appear in (unless online co-op).
Of course other engines will get higher FPS with their extras enabled - however many engines don't support all the extras either (normal and gloss maps being one of them).

As for what osjclatchford said - no it's a remodel + retexture. My-Key and I haven't got on much discussing as we need a team before we really seriously consider bring back full life to this. We would be discussing limits once the team is set up. As in max polygons and max texture size.

You can make amazing content using low poly with great textures. I again suggest checking out the Scrag in my Shamblers Castle port - the model itself is low poly and the textures themself too are low res (512x512 - which the standard Q1 can do if I recall right).

Mega, I do believe though you are taking this project WAY out of proportion. We never said we are planning on doing 4096x4096 textures on a 10,000 polygon model or anything (how it seems you think we'd be heading down to do). With higher polygons we wont need to use 4096x4096 textures like Reforged as many of the details can actually be modeled on. I myself would aim for 1024x1024 texture size for max (Qrack supports that with NO issues - using my/Moo grunt in it) and a I'd say a 2500 poly limit (being a absolute MAX). 2500 polygons in todays age is still low.

From HL2 models (6 and a half years old now):
Alyx Vance - 8323
Barney - 5922
Combine Soldier - 4682
Combine (White) - 5123
DOG - 5811
Eli - 6436
GMan - 7495
Dr. Breen - 6629
Gregory - 5623
Vortigaunt - 2945
Combine Helicopter - 6415
Combine APC - 5202
Combine Dropship - 8748
Combine Strider - 6444
Antlion Guard - 4964
Posion Headcrab - 2732

For the "WTF It's a Shambler" - it needs DP only because of the format its in. I could always port it to md3 and it would work in Qrack.

[Baker]

@ Megalodon
re: engine choices

DarkPlaces is the only engine that isn't "boring" to modellers and texturers.

Like you, DarkPlaces is not my "go to" engine. That being said, Let's say something made runs slow today, well that doesn't mean it will run slow tomorrow. Hardware and OpenGL support is getting much, much better. I tried DarkPlaces on $348 laptop with a stock Intel Media Controller video and it ran fast out-of-the-box. That's how much faster new hardware is getting ... this machine didn't have a Nvidia video card or anything.

And something working with only DarkPlaces today, that doesn't mean necessarily mean it won't work with something other than DarkPlaces tomorrow.

But if there aren't new models, textures, graphics ... engine authors are not motivated to push the limits for media/models/such that doesn't exist. Modelling for yesterday's hardware and less advanced engines isn't all that interesting for modelers.

[megalodon]

@ Megalodon
Modelling for yesterday's hardware and less advanced engines isn't all that interesting for modelers.

Well, I think that I disagree here. If I look at Func_msgboard and see what kind of maps those guys pump out, sometimes incl. new monsters... I think it rocks and they don't seem to have problems with appreciating the low-poly era. I love it myself. Same thing for that Polycount forum I mentioned. Having a poly limit is a challenge. That's why that forum section is called 'Low Poly CHALLENGE', and it's therefore very interesting for modelers to see what they can do with such a limit.

Sure, I use new HUD and item textures/models, but only 'cause they stand out against the oldschool map textures, which is what I still use. That way items/weapons are easier to spot. But that's multiplayer ofcourse. In SP I don't really need that either or perhaps only the HUD.

And that laptop of yours must have a pretty special version of Intel graphics then. I borrowed a HP Pavillion dv7 laptop (around 1000 euros) and one of the 2 gfx cards in there is the Intel HD graphics, which totally sucks for Quake. I used Ezquake for testing. When I switch to the 2nd gfx card, the ATI 5650m, it's good, as long as I turn off dynamic lightning. [EDIT]Checked again with the Intel, and it's doable when I turn off dynamic lightning. So both cards don't like DL[/EDIT]

@ osjclatchford: when I mentioned I played DP with faithful settings, RT lights were off as well. Everything was OFF. So I assume when those nifty things are off, DP doesn't have to calculate them either (I hope).

Anyway, I guess I was too early with my comments since I understand that limits will be discussed and I assume triangle stuff as well.

Too bad I never continued the modeling/anim thing. Otherwise I'd probably sign up myself. I only know the theory from reading a lot on the subject and created just 1 custom model back in the day in a shareware version of QuakeMe + Meddle (MS Dos version, lol).

[Baker]

Well, I think that I disagree here. If I look at Func_msgboard and see what kind of maps those guys pump out

Methinks these modelling guys here are just about diametrically opposite of Func_Msgboard

[LambentHammerBurst]

Well, I think that I disagree here. If I look at Func_msgboard and see what kind of maps those guys pump out, sometimes incl. new monsters... I think it rocks and they don't seem to have problems with appreciating the low-poly era.

Another reason they keep models to the very low too is much of them are based off the current Quake models or early mod models. Another is for matching. Imagine a new SP map coming out and the mapper made a "Stone Shambler" and he makes a high poly model with high res skin. All other monsters he kept the defaults for - now imagine how that would look.

Although like Baker did say, modelers here and ones at Func_Msgboard are different. Much like how a user who uses Qrack is usually different than a user who uses Darkplaces.

Due to the games age, everyone is split in how they feel Quake should be. Some just thing bugs and server issues need to be fixed/improved.
Some think Quake just needs some high res textures and it's done.
Some think Quake needs a COMPLETE graphic overhaul (high poly models ect).

So what may be thought to be "unneeded" to one - can be important to another.

However like I said previously my aim (only mine, as it hasn't been discussed) is the limit I said: 2500 polygons which is low poly by todays standards. However Quake has 15yrs of custom content. So if high poly isn't what you are wanting - there's TONS of other improvements you can find which would suit what you prefer.

[osjclatchford]

...Due to the games age, everyone is split in how they feel Quake should be.
Some just thing bugs and server issues need to be fixed/improved.
Some think Quake just needs some high res textures and it's done.
Some think Quake needs a COMPLETE graphic overhaul (high poly models ect).

So what may be thought to be "unneeded" to one - can be important to another...

got it in a nutshell there. as I was there when it all started (as many of us were) my desires of quake are highly influenced by nostalgia and therefore I fall into the 'prefer the default models but love the high-res skins' catagory.
but its a funny thing, nostalgia, sometimes it gets blown out of the water by something awesome (the ng and gl models from dp-mod for example) and then some compromise slips in.
I'm changing my mind all the time about whats best, untill recently I had been using the dpmod shotgun model but now I've gone back to the default model with a new skin, I think its all about finding your perfect balance (or better still, just grab everything out there and swap it about every now and again!).
Anyway, even though it may not have been my first choice, I'm sure that I will be glued to this thread, I mean just look at that scrag!