Rivalries Between Players And Clans. How can we do?

[Baker]

How can we establish a fun competitive environment between both players of equal skill (like Rampage Vs. Wolv) where everyone has a group of rivals AND versus clans --- where clans aren't some stacked deck of the 5 best players and people don't change clans like underwear --- it has to mean something. Is there a way we can do this? How could we support this kind of thing through stats? If you have an idea, please share.

[To the artists/graphically inclined: yes, your work is very important for a more beautiful Quake and to enrich the Quake scene.

Right now, those of us who like multi-player need to make that part healthy again so some of us are trying to do address that right now. And I hope I am not alone, but even if I am, I will be investing time and effort to repair multi-player nonetheless.

It is worth re-vitalizing, that is what I believe.]

[Phenom]

Bring back Quake 1 clan websites as a mandatory thing for a clan to be called a clan.

Each clan must contain at least FOUR individuals of any skill.

Add a reason for rival other then "Lets go talk about this 5-0 on the forums!".

Quake+Database=I'll play all day to get my global rank higher!

Perhaps a true and solid facelift? We have enough resources to create
a true arena type game play.

Make everything centralized.(This just sounded right to say.)

[R00k]

Either have dynamic teams, or a captain that chooses his team one member per tier.

Monthly clans with weekly stats. I suggest a month so a junior member can spend 4 weeks learning from one group of guys then, after the month is up
new teams are brewed. Teams could be decided on the 3rd week so the flow of games dont stall. Stats shouldnt be where more u play the better your stats are, like just simply having a
rank based on all time frags. It should be based on damage given vs damage taken, for example. I'm sure we could devise some simple algorithm for stats beyond blunt frag totals. Something so that a good player like Lenny would score an a+ from game one instead of looking like a d- out of the gate. Sure the more you play you will raise rank the better you do.... im not a statistics major though

[Baker]

Each clan must contain at least FOUR individuals of any skill.

Where would newer players fit in and players that show up but will never be near the high end.

Case in point, back when CAx was new, we had some newer players who played regularly but were not exactly "one man armies". And dividing up the "still learning" players worked so everyone could have fun.

How do we establish a solid way for everyone to be able to participate? Because those are the kind of players we need to be able to accommodate in all of this.

The way things have worked the last 2 years or so --- and no one's fault --- has pushed these players out of being able to participate in a meaningful way.

It should be based on damage given vs damage taken, for example.

Ok ... now this is definitely on the right track as far as how to categorize players and establish tiers.

[R00k]

here's an interesting article from halo2 about their ranking system
Bungie.net : Halo 2 Stats Overview : 1/30/2007 2:23 PM PST

I looked over on QuakeLive and most players on the forum think that its borked.

[Syluxguy28O3]

what clans are actually still active?
@baker
are you suggesting a league of clans or something?

[Baker]

what clans are actually still active?
@baker
are you suggesting a league of clans or something?

I'm working on the stats mechanism for the new team DM server to make it automatically update. It won't do everything I want the first time, but it will be quite automatic and done in a way that I can integrate here (again, automatically).

But I am not sure to how to address the above issues.

[monoz]

I would like to stats incorporated in all mods -cax/crctf/dm. If it were possible, I would like to post the stats on my servers on the web (kills, eff, etc...). The log print stats, so hopfully someone smarter than me can make this happen.


Im all up for claims as long as we playing games other than dm. I would be willing to play dm, but not at the expense at better mods.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

these are all suggestions my brain has just tossed into words, it might be hard to follow

Always being the low-level to mid-level player, and never being at the top, I found while recruiting for clans I would base my clan invitations on everything but skill. The most important factor to me was time being played. I would rather have a clan full of clan mates who are intent on being around for awhile / regularly plays Quake as opponsed to a 'Ringer' thats around once a month or less.

Also, in a pool of players who are availible if your choices of who you invite to your clan are based purely on skill, then good luck finding players,let alone keeping them. Mid to Low tier players will have way more respect for the suggestion that someone's offering them to join your clan, as opposed to a Mid to High tier player would because they are probably not only accustom to invitations but also would expect it to happen,because they are good.

-Being the underdog and being expected to lose ,and instead winning = epic.
-Being the expected victor,and sweeping victory as expected , is typical and boring imo.


I like the idea of winning as much as the next guy, but I want to have accomplished something worthy of mentioning, and picking from the top-down is the best way players create lopsided teams,and has less focus on making the game fun for the newer players.

Every member of any clan I was a leader in;

1]great quake ethics,not an asshole
2]played Quake on a regular basis
3]rarely was someone invited a top-tier quaker
4]enjoyed this game whether winning or losing.

IMO, at most, a clan should include two top to mid level players. Examples of real world current player listing.

examples only, and making it easy with alphabetical matchings

Striker SmokeJ (Recruits players as they become availble,and accept them)

Mindz Mono (Recruits players one at a time for every clan)

Rook Rev (Active Recruiting for clans should remain frontpage, what clan is recruiting and the details of each change of active recruiting)

This way clans would start out even and fillout slowly. At one point in time during Quakeone.com's early days during heavy activity, KP's roster was well over 8 , same with EXL, and NFA , and several other clans was very bloated.


If one clan has the entire 'all star roster' like EXL and NFA did at one time,Doom,in[10]sity,etc, then everyone will aspire to be apart of only a handful of clans and a rag-tag bunch who just got together will have little chances of competition. This is how TDM teams are picked, by Captains,and it fucking ruins any fun factor outside ferarri winning competition style approach to Quake.

This is why TDM never really expanded like CAx did, and its because it limits itself to a very select few players. It's also to fuckin slow, and places less emphasis on immediate satisfaction for newer players. TDM is a minefield that a newb will step into and instantly die, so its worthless imo to start new players on a DM level. The best way to hook a new player is give him all the fn weapons / team mates / and throw the CAx possibility of a 5-0 into the mix, thats all you need to grow a community from a few seedlings of top tier players.

[Phenom]

I agree, CAX is much more noob friendly then DM and RQ is much more friendly(in ways) then CAX.

Perhaps a mod very similar to DM/CAX which automatically assigns a player a color upon joining (yellow,red,yellow,red,yellow,red) then introduce captains who are picked by the mod using the formula like (TIME ALIVE + FRAGS + DEATHS) = position on the captain ladder. That formula is just an example and is most definitely broken for this idea.

Taking away the player's choice to choose a team color automatically erases any team staggering by choice and also introduces some cool ideas!

Team captains can have more life but if killed gives 2-3 frags?

Captains can also heal other teammates but only when not firing or moving...
Which makes me thing of a "roaming army" wanting to stay near to the supplies.

[monoz]

mindz just made up 3 clans. we are good to go. Anti-Kimp[monoz]

[Syluxguy28O3]

i would play more if was part of a clan i think.

[MadGypsy]

Rosters

hypothetical:

• Clan [Quakers] is lead by Quake.Leader.
• Quake.Leader recruits
• Quake Leader tells recruits A, B & C that they can form a roster
• Recruits A, B & C recruit but do not have the power to issue rosters

This has already been proven to work as a way to build a strong clan and keep interest in another game I play. It has to be coupled with a database of kills/deaths/suicide.

Players join a clan and put in their time in the hopes that they will be granted a roster. It also sparks friendly competition in the clan to obtain a renowned roster. Having the kills/deaths/suicide rankings (centralized) gives roster leaders information to base their invites on and keeps players trying to get better so they will receive an invitation to a good clan. Clan invites should also be issued within the game via a PM style system. For instance, there should be a menu to view a list of all players in the room. Roster leaders could traverse this list, highlight a player and send them a clan invite. A centerprint would appear on the players screen informing that they just got an invite. In basically a PM fashion the player could then go accept or deny that invitation. Upon acceptance the static clan tag would then be prepended to their username. If they are already in a clan they would have to leave that clan (through a similar system) first. One Quake feature would have to go bye bye - no more changing your name. Your name is an account and to change your name would involve creating a new account. Some checks and balances could be done to potentially prevent someone from having more than one account.

Like I said...this is an existing and proven to work system. Implementing on Quake however would involve a serious overhaul of the SVQC and none of the engines (to my knowledge) seem to be ready for something like this either. Name changes for instance..

[rev]

I'm 100% all for this. I think a handful of people (or a committee for lack of better word), who play regularly, for each mod we intend to put to put a spark back into should be chosen. A CA committee, and a DM comittee. Obv the two separate committees might contain a couple of the same people.

That being said, this committee should brain storm and hammer a way to rank players. Tiers if need be. Then do a draft of sorts. I'll play both mods, and i don't care whose team I'm on. I just enjoy good competition.

So someone needs to figure out a way to compile these committees. Whether by vote/polls, or volunteering, but we first need to establish a few ppl that play regularly and is capable of making sound decisions on what's best for the community, not the individual.

I would look at our government here in the U.S. A system of checks and balances. We need committees, but then we need 2-3 people that are well accustomed to both mods that can first build these committees and then see to it that these committees are doing what they are meant for.

I work a 4 shift schedule, so i have a lot more days off than i used to, but the days i do work, no one is on when i get home from work. But if this were to go through, i'd definitely make sure I pulled my weight to help make this happen. I miss the days when you wanted to wear a clan tag, and you were proud to show it off on a packed server. Either way, if there's anything I can do to help, let me know.

My priorities are as follows, family, work, quake, social life, sports.

[rev]

Also, i would think it would be in Quake's best interest for all personal grudges to be taboo and looked down upon when getting down to the work of building this infrastructure. With the exception of kimp.