To Everyone Who Hates Cheaters

[funkify]

A MESSAGE TO ALL THOSE INTERESTED IN STOPPING CHEATERS

We all know there have always been bot-callers out there, and there probably always will be. Usually the best thing that an innocent, skilled player can do when accused of cheating is to ignore it or laugh it off. However, what I have seen lately is that the accused keep quiet while the bot-callers are so vocal that the newbies listen to the only voice they hear -- the stupid one.

There have always been newbies, and hopefully there always will be. Life takes some people away from Quake, and only new blood will ensure that this game stays around. But when an entire generation of newbies becomes polluted with nonsense about how all the skilled players are supposedly cheating, I think there is reason to take note. I believe that the reason this game has been around so long is because there have always been newbies, as well as skilled players. Take out one or the other, and I think the game would become a ghost town.

There some things going on related to cheating accusations that are pretty disturbing. One is that the bot accusers refuse to pay attention to reason, but by the amount of energy they put into it (Bellybutton/IHH and Surfer Girl to name a couple) you have to think that they really honestly have convinced themselves, and are on a crusade to convince everyone else. They try to convince others that cheating is ignored by the admin, that all the great players cheat, and that they should leave the game if an alleged cheater is playing, even if the allegations are nothing more than their blathering words.

The results of this are potentially devastating to new players. Recently I have heard much discussion in the game from various newbie players about how they are actively seeking out cheats to use. How sad. On one hand you might think if they are that gullible to believe the idiot ranters, and they actually do succeed in using a cheat, that they are better off banned. But on the other, I really hate to see people get banned. I would rather they learned the truth than learn things the hard way, and reduce our numbers in the process.

Myth #1: All the good players cheat. Players with great aim or who are difficult to kill are cheating.
Hogwash. This game has been around for over 10 years, and a lot of the best players around now have been playing online ever since the Quake shareware days. If you want to see an example of someone who has the best aim ever, try finding demos of Gohan at his best. The guy doesn't miss. He also doesn't cheat. I have seen Gohan play at cheatfree servers and seen no variance in playing style. If I ever beat Gohan at his best, it was definitely an accomplishment. But the bottom line is, experience, reflexes, and general gaming skills will help people win. You might not know the secrets and tricks, but they don't involve cheating. There has been a lot of discussion on this matter and I don't want this to turn into a playing guide. But if you don't understand how you are getting beaten so badly, then perhaps you should stop whining about cheating and start paying attention to the guys who are winning! Ride them, watch how they play. Most of the good players will be glad to share tips with you. Ask nicely, be friendly, and you will learn. There is also an assload of information and tips here: http://www.quakeone.com/index.php?ind=guides

Myth #2: The admins let people cheat.
Nonsense, at least in the case of Shmack. Slot can affirm that there have been several occasions in the last year or two where I have sent him demos of a suspected cheater, and he will either confirm and ban the player, or tell me he disagrees, or tell me that the evidence is inconclusive. The fact of the matter is, cheaters really will get banned if you collect evidence in the right way. How do you collect evidence in the right way? Well, read on...

Myth #3: You can't see cheating in demos.
This is the biggest load of bullshit I have heard in a long time, and this lie was introduced by IHH/Bellybutton and is now being perpetuated by all of those ignorant enough to believe it. If you can see someone cheating in the game, you can demo it. Why? Because demos contain everything you can see in the game, everything you can hear, everything. If you can detect it in the game, then you can also detect it in a demo. The converse is true. If you can't detect it in a demo, then there is also no way to detect it in the game, and if you claim otherwise then you are either ignorant or you are a lying shit who just wants to bot-call for the sake of annoying. Demos don't lie, and they are proof.

Myth #4: If I think someone is cheating, the first thing I should do is tell everyone on the server.
Very bad move. If you REALLY think someone is cheating, running your mouth about it will only tip a cheater off to hide it, and then you won't get the evidence you need to get the cheater busted. What you SHOULD do is keep QUIET about it... but demo the person. It works much better if you also don't let them know you are recording.

TIP: Use the Rider-Hide command before riding someone!
At the Shmack server, when you go into observer mode, type RIDER-HIDE in the console. Then, when you ride someone, they won't see the Gold rider key in the display. Often this way, you can ride them without them noticing. It works EVEN BETTER if you go into observer mode by staying idle after you die. That way, the suspected cheater will probably think that you've just gone away for awhile. If you go into obs mode right after getting fragged, that will tip off a cheater that you are watching.

Myth #5: Richmark isn't a cheat.
So wrong. Richmark is about cheating. Don't use it, or you will get caught. If you want to find out what it means to be banned, well, that's just sad.

IN CONCLUSION...
Just don't cheat. And if you think someone is cheating, do the right thing as a member of this community and help catch them. That means keeping quiet, making a demo, and emailing it to the admin (for Shmack this is Slot Zero).

ABOUT MAKING DEMOS...
For more info, visit http://www.quakeone.com/index.php?in...s&op=show&id=2. And remember, all demos need to have the STATUS command in them, so the admin will know who is being demoed and if necessary who needs to be banned.

[Baker]

Last year, there was an occasion where Scoffer laid the bot accusations on me heavy and thick. And it actually made me pretty upset because everyone knows Scoffer would probably NOT be playing Quake if it weren't for me lobbying for him to get a 2nd chance. About 2 years ago, I even offered to teach him how to play.

Both Scoffer has used a bot in the past and so has Surfer Girl.

And I don't know if that other Surfer person is male or female, but that person has used the website address of a cheat as a name.

I can name 4 other players that cause a lot of trouble in the accusations department.

I think the real solution is as the community grows again, eventually there will be another Shmack-like server and maybe those 5 or 6 players that make a lot of baseless accusations get pre-banned.

I said about the same thing as you last year to someone in particular.

The problem is that there needs to be an alternative other than banning people. Yugo2Heck perma-mute code is a better solution I think.

But then that also raises another issue, I've seen tons of "inappropriate player names" on servers.

[funkify]

Last year, there was an occasion where Scoffer laid the bot accusations on me heavy and thick. And it actually made me pretty upset because everyone knows Scoffer would probably NOT be playing Quake if it weren't for me lobbying for him to get a 2nd chance.

I banned him in the first place. His bottage was blatant, and his behavior afterwards on the message boards and in private with me was beyond shitty. I am usually not in favor of permanent bans, but I was in that case.

The problem is that there needs to be an alternative other than banning people. Yugo2Heck perma-mute code is a better solution I think.

This would help curtail baseless accusations, but really my post was geared towards educating the baseless accusers... if they are able to read and comprehend, that is. Not bloody likely, I realize, but still worth a try. But maybe Slot is listening.

But then that also raises another issue, I've seen tons of "inappropriate player names" on servers.

Offtopic, but there is already a solution for this -- Qsmack does name bans. For example, you could name ban "honkey" and it would prevent anyone with "honkey" anywhere in their name from connecting, or boot them if they changed to "honkey" during a game.

[Bank]

I dont take it too seriously. Everybody cheats, but it's really just them depriving themselves of a good game. Surprisingly enough, I'm not even good enough at the game for it to effect me. Most cheaters suck anyway and resort to cheating just because they have no other way to "win".

[foq]

Cheating would just ruin any fun for me.

[Baker]

Everybody cheats, but it's really just them depriving themselves of a good game.

Almost no one is cheating. It is very rare anymore. I haven't played at Shmack much in a month or 2 because I've been playing at other servers, but I had only run into a bot maybe 5 times in 2 years. It is incredibly rare.

The reason I think the bot accusers are so bitter is that they've tried using a bot discovered they STILL don't get many frags. Quake is so much more than aim.

A bot doesn't give you any sense of defensive tactics or smart play. I have yet to play a game Shmack in the last 2 or 3 years where I'm not handily giving a botter a massive beatdown, probably because it is always someone terrible using one. I always take the time to record a demo and give it to Slot Zero and the botter isn't around long.

Some of these troublesome players simply refuse to accept that there are vastly different skill levels in Quake. Or it is possible they don't want to and just want to cause trouble (very likely in some cases).

It doesn't bother when experienced players hear the stuff, but newer players are very impressionable.

I guess I've not around it a lot lately because I play a lot more at Bomber or Rocket Arena lately and all of those players are very aware of the varying skill levels at Quake.

[Canadian*Sniper]

If you don't like cheaters, play in cheat-free servers.

And I don't know if that other Surfer person is male or female, but that person has used the website address of a cheat as a name.

I take it you havn't seen the crappy video. She's a teenage gurl.

[funkify]

I dont take it too seriously. Everybody cheats, but it's really just them depriving themselves of a good game. Surprisingly enough, I'm not even good enough at the game for it to effect me. Most cheaters suck anyway and resort to cheating just because they have no other way to "win".

You say that "everybody cheats"???!? Surely that must be a typo. I don't know you, but you really don't seem like a gullible newbie fucktard. If you really do think that, then you are an example of what I am talking about.

Everybody does NOT cheat. I don't. Do you?

[Baker]

She's a teenage gurl.

"And I don't know if that other Surfer person is male or female" -- Baker

Not Surfer girl, that other surfer person who is usually playing at the same time.

[funkify]

Oh, you're talking about Sufrslave or whatever he is. Yeah, that's one of the players who is seeking and promoting the use of cheats.

[Canadian*Sniper]

"And I don't know if that other Surfer person is male or female" -- Baker

Not Surfer girl, that other surfer person who is usually playing at the same time.

you didn't word it correctly so a Canadian could understand. I had no knowledge of there being another surfer

[Bank]

Almost no one is cheating. It is very rare anymore. I haven't played at Shmack much in a month or 2 because I've been playing at other servers, but I had only run into a bot maybe 5 times in 2 years. It is incredibly rare.

The reason I think the bot accusers are so bitter is that they've tried using a bot discovered they STILL don't get many frags. Quake is so much more than aim.

A bot doesn't give you any sense of defensive tactics or smart play. I have yet to play a game Shmack in the last 2 or 3 years where I'm not handily giving a botter a massive beatdown, probably because it is always someone terrible using one. I always take the time to record a demo and give it to Slot Zero and the botter isn't around long.

Some of these troublesome players simply refuse to accept that there are vastly different skill levels in Quake. Or it is possible they don't want to and just want to cause trouble (very likely in some cases).

It doesn't bother when experienced players hear the stuff, but newer players are very impressionable.

I guess I've not around it a lot lately because I play a lot more at Bomber or Rocket Arena lately and all of those players are very aware of the varying skill levels at Quake.

It's not literal Baker, I just obviously dont put the effort towards a ceaseless cause as much as you do. Cheaters arent going away, they've been around since one man decided that he'd rather take the easy way than the right way or the fun way or etc. Arguing about cheaters is like complaining about the sun, it serves no purpose other than wasting time.

Guys, if you care THAT much, play on a cheatfree server. But, much like the current spyware pandemic on the internet, "cheatfree" like "spyware protected" really doesnt mean too much until the next new cheat is prevented. Good day sir : D

[JackHole]

OK...I disagree! Demo's are not always a good way to detect
bot like actions. A demo is played back by the engine YOU are
using and not the engine the 'cheater' was using. Embedded info
and coordinates that the other engine uses are not the same as your
engine.

Richmark: aka Kroeker aka Quakebot1.7 series
Can be detected if you have the right code.
-ip list * inside info

pak2 could be detected by demo or even admin functions.

Quake is probably pretty clean these days but you will never
be totally sure about someone until you see them play!

[Net-Tyme]

OK...I disagree! Demo's are not always a good way to detect
bot like actions. A demo is played back by the engine YOU are
using and not the engine the 'cheater' was using. Embedded info
and coordinates that the other engine uses are not the same as your
engine.

Quake is probably pretty clean these days but you will never
be totally sure about someone until you see them play!

Gawd.. I've been saying that for years. You just put it better then I could say it. thank you Jackhole.

Now back to topic... It is the same ones over and over and it's not the fact that they call the person a bot thats bothersome.. It's the constant bot spamming. I've often thought the text spam feature should be put back in. Just to shut it up for awhile.

[scar3crow]

I mostly just play Quake with friends, or at least people I semi-know.