Setting up and using Radiant

[golden_boy]

You have a good point; map sources do let you see how stuff is done.

Index of /pub/idgames2/utils/level_edit/converters

Take a look in there.

[JDSTONE]

Thankyou Golden_boy for addressing my question. when i open a BSP all the brushs are triangulated (if that is the word for it) and the textchers are a mess. it would be bad to try and copy and past out of it.
but its a good way to see how the map works such as triggers if you do not have the map file. and it is good for the hard core cheater like my self to drop in some extra goodies lol

I agree with
Just build the stuff yourself. It takes longer but it's yours.

my map peaces that i have done are kinda messy but it is my mess and i take pride in it

[golden_boy]

also is there a way to have radient open a bsp like quark will?

BSP is a compiled format that isn't meant for editing, if something still lets you do it then it's a giant hack.

There are programs that let you decompile a BSP (bsp2map I believe) but you'll not get a clean map from doing this because the format isn't made to be used that way.

.map is for editing, .bsp is for loading into an engine.

Just build the stuff yourself. It takes longer but it's yours.

[golden_boy]

DarkRadiant doesn't support Quake I believe, it officially supports The Dark Mod and Doom3 afaik.

If it wasn't for Radiant, I'd be using Unity or something. I can't deal with Worldcraft because of its user interface.

[MadGypsy]

I couldn't even imagine using that nightmare. I have played with it before, it is a nightmare. I will die with some Radiant on me. (lol)

Actually, I have tried every single solitary map editor that exists for windows and that was a gigantic waste of time cause I was already using Radiant...and I still am.

If I'm not mistaken, Radiant is what Quake was originally built in. It has certainly seen some updates since then, but I'm almost positive Radiant was their editor.

Here is my own personal (highly opinionated) review of Quake map editors.

Worldcraft: easy to learn and use but seriously lacking any clear way to customize your compiles and in some ways it is also "broken"

BSP: The WORST editor I have ever used. Very unfriendly.

QuArK: Hella powerful and stuck in 1996

NetRadiant: The bomb

GTKRadiant: a slightly weaker bomb (mostly due to config options [.pref])

DarkRadiant: I couldn't figure out how to do anything in this editor.

If I wasn't a diehard Radiant user, I would use Worldcraft. No other editors would even receive consideration by me.

[JDSTONE]

you can run your map in quark and play it. but quark will also open the bsp and show it to you like a map. the brush work is all crazy but you can see all the triggers and everything elce. you can even put new thing in the map and save it. i gave the map unforgiven a few well placed extra quads. if you have not looked a quark you may wanna give it a look i know its old but they don't call it the quake army knife for nothing. nahuel reminded me that it was out there when i was having issues with radiant.

[MadGypsy]

also is there a way to have radient open a bsp like quark will?

Well, I'm not familiar with Quark, but that sounds like you are saying that Quark has a built in engine. Sadly, radiant does not have such a feature BUT you can make radiant open your engine with the bsp loaded. All you have to do is goo to the become a Quake modder thread and look through all of my work on the radiant build menu.

Speaking of the radiant build menu. I will have a new version in the near future. Using .bats and .hta files I was able to create the GOD of build menus. Instead of it just being a shell with some number options, now it is more like an html form, fully equipped with buttons and option save features. The only drawback is .hta is pretty much an IE thing.

[JDSTONE]

im not working on mapping right now but i have been reading this a lot.
gypsy check out the bunker
Index of ./Quake 1 and 2 Prefabs/Quake/map/gamers/
lots of good quake stuff hiding there

also is there a way to have radient open a bsp like quark will?

[MadGypsy]

I just went to Quake Navigator to double check what I said and there are no examples there. Not one. But, I found something else that you may find useful.

[MadGypsy]

I have so much map related stuff it isn't even funny, talisa. When gb told me that using only Worldcraft is a "weakness", I took that pretty seriously and went balls out to learn everything I could. I have collected so much data that I could form my own "quaddicted" for just maps.

I found something out about a lot of this stuff I have. I'm probably one of the last few people that even has it. This stuff was last minute scraped from old Quake sites that no longer exist. All those map examples I just gave you, you would be LUCKY to find 3 or 4 of them. I managed to get ALL of them (years ago).

I think Quake navigator managed to cache a few of those map examples, but not all 26 of them.

edit: Oh, and you are welcome, of course.

[talisa]

thanx for that pack with exmples of stuffs gypsy

[MadGypsy]

this is what you want

doing it this way, you don't have to fish through a map to find what you need. With the exception of lights and wall brushes, everything in these map examples are whats needed to create whatever the example is "exampling" (lol)

technically, you could just hilight the walls and lights, delete them and resave the map. Then, open your map and import what you left behind in the example. See, quick and easy prefab cheat.

@Seven - you should "pick up" a Radiant and give mapping a go. I absolutely suck at mapping, but because of all my efforts, I could teach it (Q1 style) all day long without even having to think. You've already proven that you can pick up QC out of the blue and make something notable...I see no reason why you would be exempt from maps.

[MadGypsy]

I agree that map sources could show you what you want to know, but that could end up confusing if you don't know what you are looking for, which if you did know what you are looking for you wouldn't be asking for help...see?

So, to answer your question, no they do not have to loop (per se) but you cannot ever have a time where there is no targetname to be found. So for instance, say you wanted to have a monster walk to the end of a line and stop. You would simply make the last path_corner have the same target as it's targetname.

What will happen in that situation is an endless process of the monster finding the spot it is already at.

If you want map examples, I don't believe opening e1m1 is going to help you. What you want is map examples of the various things that you can make specifically. I have such a compilation and as soon as I find it, I will upload it for you.

[talisa]

of course, i completely forgot about that the map sources of the original quake maps had been released, and i could just look into those maps to see how its done

thanx for reminding me the map sources of the original quake maps were released,
immediately searched for them and found them, will take a look at them later

[Seven]

Hello splitterface (yes, I know it is talisa now),

Isnt learning with practical examples easier ?
There are many many fan-made levels available in their original .map format. Even all id1 maps.

I dont know if the uncompiled .map format has all of these targets included if you open them in your mapping tool, but I think they should have.

Then why dont you look at them ?
As good as every map has patrolling monsters.

If you choose original E1M1, you know that 2 soldiers patroll in front of the exploding boxes.
They patrol in a square --> this results in a endless loop

And there is also this lonely soldier patrolling behind the 1st slime pool where the slope area starts.
He walks back and forth --> this results in a endless loop

Look at how these path_cornerīs are laid and this maybe shows you more than words. As practical examples always does.


Even from looking at the .ent file from E1M1 you can see that each path_corner has a target name.
The simplest patrolling path would be back and forth in a loop:

{
"classname" "path_corner"
"origin" "880 2048 -168"
"target" "t16"
"targetname" "t17"
}
{
"origin" "1232 2048 -232"
"classname" "path_corner"
"targetname" "t16"
"target" "t17"
}

A square patrolling path would be next:

{
"classname" "path_corner"
"origin" "248 1992 -200"
"targetname" "t19"
"target" "t20"
}
{
"origin" "-200 1992 -200"
"classname" "path_corner"
"targetname" "t20"
"target" "t21"
}
{
"classname" "path_corner"
"origin" "-136 1912 -200"
"targetname" "t21"
"target" "t22"
}
{
"origin" "248 1912 -200"
"classname" "path_corner"
"target" "t19"
"targetname" "t22"
}

As you see, the last past_corner calls the 1st again.

You can create any geometry you want I guess.

I am no mapper, but this is at least what the .ent files tell me...

Good luck
Seven