Setting up and using Radiant

[bluntz]

No, that is actually brilliant. I could make primative shapes transparent but still cast shadows and be solid underlaying the HD .obj. from blender. I have had some luck with importing terrains made in blender and exported with the Q3.map plugin.I am currently trying to figure out how to use the HD normal I made for it.

[golden_boy]

I'm ill atm, sorry for absence.

Looks good.

Definitely turn everything that's not the "hull" into detail.

You can export selected brushwork from Radiant to *.obj (via a plugin). Then load that into Blender and as was said, use static meshes. Export to ASE format from Blender (q3map2 can directly bake ase into the BSP and light them correctly).

Blender tutorial and training list - game · level · character | KatsBits

Use tutorials from this site for the entire static mesh stuff. I also have something on my blog.

Use misc_model to import ASE models; you can just place an info_notnull and change its classname to misc_model. Radiant should open a file selection dialog.

Quake 3 format should have higher limits, but some engines need their internal limits bumped (when in doubt try FTE from svn and pester Spike). q3bsp is also probably not limit-less, but since I haven't encountered any with my unusually large maps I assume it should not be a problem. Also Spike said he couldn't think of any. There might still be some. Make sure you use q3map2 from the latest Netradiant - the one with .17 at the end.

Stuff like "CSG Make hollow" on complex structures is a big no-no. Do not use CSG. Full stop. Do not use very dense cylinders, it's usually not necessary.

Do use static meshes like described above for anything more complex.

Remember that game assets (this includes levels) don't really need to be super high-poly - be reasonable with everything and do look at optimizing the polycount (and later the vis blocking....). Don't get so excited that you forget basic rules. Utilize "good practice". If you break something with q3bsp / q3map2, then I'd be thinking that something isn't being done according to good practice.

Also remember what I said elsewhere about vis blocking and Quake being good at room and corridor stuff and not too much else. This holds true for Q3 format as well. It needs to run in an engine, after all.

Finally, do look at your map with r_wireframe (or the DP equivalent) enabled. If you see an incredible mess of lines, making much of the screen totally white, then your scene has horrible vis-blocking and will eat much more performance than would be needed. Again, good practice etc. comes into play. It's still 15 year old technology.

Normal too short - you might have created some extremely small polygons somehow, CSG sounds like a good candidate that would do something like that.

Grid size has nothing to do with map size, btw. The grid is just a tool. Brushwork does not scale if the grid size changes.

After any operation that involves copy and paste, inserting something, clipping or csg, polygon builder plugin etc. or rotating something, use Snap To Grid. You should basically use that constantly.

[bluntz]

This is a preview of the next map I will work on to recreate a mayan temple using a photograph.I took this shot quite a few years ago.Using the photo to recreate a detailed feature because yea I am lazy.

Here is the resulting height map converted to a model.

And finally here is the model after Uv texture was put back over it and rendered.
.
While I was at it I made a map to carve this as well using my cnc.
Inkscape generates the paths and G-code ,All for free from start to finish.Thanks GB,This is a bit faster than how I had approached it before.
Open source Rocks!

[Seven]

Thanks ,I have some of the errors figured out and getting it to compile ok now.

Hello bluntz,

I like this screenshot. It reminds me on Rogue and other temple maps.
Also your new picture will be a "temple" (maya).
These kind of structures/architecture is what I like the most in maps. "base" maps are not my favorites...

By the way, did you ever release a complete playable SP map ?
I would be interested, because of your 'style'.

Good luck,
Seven

[bluntz]

I am glad you like it but no I have not finished it yet as I have a lot to learn.
Since this is my first map I need to make the teles and switches and all those other little things to work.Q1 is so very bleak on documentation and the tools are so arcane it makes it a time consuming effort and if I get frustrated I just go off and play.I do that quite a bit as the group of mapping guys is tiny to start with,then add in the guys who do this on Linux and I find myself alone most of the time.

[golden_boy]

I also usually feel pretty alone with my mapping / game making efforts, as what I'm doing is sort of between the chairs. It's not the classic Q1 mapping that people like Necros do to perfection, but it's also not your typical UDK or Source stuff.

idtech mapping/modding (any idtech in fact, even Doom 3 modding) is a pretty lonely quest these days.

It's interesting how you apparently converted a photo into a model via a heightmap you generated? That's crazy. How's the polycount on the resulting asset? (because that matters quite a bit when it comes to performance.)

Are there more people who need tutorials on making stuff as simple as buttons in Quake? It's slightly surprising to me, because I make doors and buttons in my sleep or between doing more interesting stuff.

[bluntz]

Poly count was just over 1/2 million.I made no effort to optimize as it was just my first attempt at a detailed terrain.I went back in and decimated to 50k before I saw any noticeable loss.

I started working on the oracle map again since seven showed some interest in playing it.
I see you have fixed your shadow lighting,what a huge difference in the pipes it made.Nice Stuff.
.map export is still crap in blender though,is there some plugins for radiant or a better one for blender?

[bluntz]

preview for seven- very alpha- Zippyshare.com - apollo.zip.

[Seven]

Hello bluntz,

Thank you for your pre-alpha.
That is a huge huge map, with a trillion enemies

But there is 1 issue with the textures:
The path does not match the path you included in the .zip file.
There must be some subfolders like this to find them:
textures\stone\.....jpg
textures\wood\....jpg
textures\nature\....jpg

All your ...jpg´s in the .zip file are in 1 single folder (stone, wood, nature, ... subfolders are missing), so I could not see them in-game.

Good luck for your project
Seven

[bluntz]

Hello bluntz,

Thank you for your pre-alpha.
That is a huge huge map, with a trillion enemies

But there is 1 issue with the textures:
The path does not match the path you included in the .zip file.
There must be some subfolders like this to find them:
textures\stone\.....jpg
textures\wood\....jpg
textures\nature\....jpg

All your ...jpg´s in the .zip file are in 1 single folder (stone, wood, nature, ... subfolders are missing), so I could not see them in-game.

Good luck for your project
Seven

Ok I will recreate those for you so you can have some fun with it.
I did a bit more with it and am distracted by the fun testing it.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMB50dyhuA]apollo - YouTube[/ame]here is the textures with the file structure,let me know how you make out.
http://www44.zippyshare.com/v/35788021/file.html

[Syluxguy28O3]

look'n good!

[bluntz]

Thanks for the interest.
GB, I am getting some disappearing walls and non solid cylinders even marking them structural makes no difference?
Also there's no option to import any other format under misc model.It just has some entities there.
I have been doing some of the work on 1.62 as a q3 map with no bugs yet that I know of and the option for obj md3 ase and such is under misc model on that build,but I have used it sparingly as I fear breaking something.The docs for 1.6 claim no support for DP anymore.

[golden_boy]

Disappearing walls - this is strange, I would need to see the map and BSP file - can you post a link?

Nonsolid cylinders - those are patches, I assume. Have you tested this in FTE as well? Does it happen there, too?

Is everything snapped to the grid?

How many vis portals does the map have (this is in the compiler output)?

Any compiler errors?

Here's something about HOMs (the disapperaing walls are probably HOMs) from quake3world:

http://www.quake3world.com/forum/vie...5520&hilit=HOM

Did you do any CSG around there? Do Not Use CSG (except CSG Merge perhaps).

[bluntz]

Ahh yes the offending wall had the doorway CSG subtracted.
The cylinders being non solid though I have no idea why some are and some not solid.I think they are just polys not patches as I have yet to use patches at all.That I know of anyway,unless the bobstools uses them.
Zippyshare.com - id1.zip

[golden_boy]

Bluntz, I'm looking at your map file in Radiant. I see that a lot of stuff is not snapped to the grid. That is bad.

1. You need to select your entire map in the top view and press Ctrl-G (snap to grid) after selecting a grid size of 1 unit.

Afterwards, you need to check for leaks by letting the compiler run (easy to fix since your map is boxed).

2. You should start using patch meshes for all your columns, curves and arches. It is much easier to keep a patch curve on the grid, and it will look like a real curve.

To create a cylinder as a patch, do not use bobtools / polygon builder (that is for brushes).

Create a square brush that is roughly the size of the cylinder you need; then go to the Curve menu of Radiant and select "Cylinder". This will turn a square brush into a cylinder made from patch mesh.





You can edit a patch by selecting it, then going to Vertex mode (V) and pulling the vertices around. Every patch is surrounded by a cage of vertices that affect its behaviour. By deforming the vertex cage, you deform the patch.





As you see, by editing the patch's vertices, you can make the cylinder's lower end thicker, or even bend it at a 90 degree angle. Watch where the vertices are.

I seriously suggest to use patch cylinders for all your columns etc. They are much easier to use and keep on the grid.

Here is how you build an archway from patches:



Build a frame from brushes (on the grid...). Then make another brush where the arch is gonna be, and select Curve -> Endcap to turn it into a semicircle. You might have to rotate and resize (by pulling an edge, just like you resize brushes) the endcap a little until it is where you want it.

A patch has only one side btw; if you can't see the patch / can't see the texture on it, press Ctrl -I to Invert the patch. This also brings the texture to the other side.

If you have the endcap (semi circle) in place, keep the endcap selected and choose Curve -> Cap Selection. A popup menu will appear; choose Inverted Endcap. The result:



The corners are filled in.

It is super easy, as you see. Perfect archway on the grid.

You can align textures on patches in the surface inspector (S) by using the buttons in the lower row.

I guess the fact that so much of your stuff is not on the grid produces the problems with your map. Use patches instead of bobzoolz, keep everything on the grid and be happy.