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  • Originally posted by jdstoner View Post
    i think the bomb should be more medieval

    v v v v v v v v v v v v
    Originally posted by seven View Post
    i now also included different grenade models for the warlord and in case you decided to use the "multigrenade" type, the mini-grenades now are smaller in size.
    are you curious about what all there is out there in terms of HD content for quake?
    > then make sure to check out my 'definitive' HD replacement content thread! <
    everything that is out there for quake and both mission-packs, compiled into one massive thread


    • Thank you Josh.
      Yes, these files slipped through my fingers

      Good to have someone like you, who cleans up each and every room / map completely before moving on to the next one
      I didnt kill a wall zombie for a long time...

      Yes, that was my first step concerning the wall monster:
      Add a gib and blood effect at the impact position.
      You may have noticed how the grenades and rockets gets socked up by the texture
      ... and all you get in return are some chunks of fresh meat. LOL

      By the way, if you do not like the wall monsters, you can still keep the gib chunk effect, when shooting those textures, by setting this cvar to "1" instead of "2":
      set evil_faces 1
      I maybe should make "1" default, as it is fun.
      I have caught myself standing there and firing dozens of nails into these textures. Just to see those beautiful chunks thrown out. Their size, velocity and direction are random. So it looks quite nice when shooting with nailguns into these textures with cvar set to "1".

      At first, I wanted to make grenades and rockets to be returned towards the player when shooting them into it, hahaaa. But that would have been unfair I guess.

      Thank you very much for testing!


      • With all due respect, we will just have to agree to disagree Seven. I know and fully understand what your mod is capable of, but I don't think in such uni-directional terms. Nor do I agree that SMC specific maps would be useless by any means.

        Maybe, I can drag you into my head for a second and you will at least come closer to agreeing with me. I type organically so I (in a sense) don't even know what I am about to say, but I have a feeling it is going to be extensive. Here we go:

        You say SMC works with all maps that are not custom progs specific. OK, that's good, that makes your mod very universal. However, your SMC has changed a whole lot of things about these maps when it is turned fully on and that is what we are going to focus on.

        You have introduced at least 3 (?4) monsters that I know of which are not in Quake. I'm sure you can CVAR these away in any Quake map, but with maps of your own you can say "This is different, this is not Quake and the intention is not to be able to turn off my work." With me so far?

        You have also introduced many QC mods which may work in a Quake map, but they aren't "Quake". Actually no matter what you do it will never be "Quake" cause Quake has already been made and that stuff isn't in it.

        You have all of this work and art and time invested into something that can just be turned off at will, because for some reason it is important to you to modify Quake in such a way that it is as if you never modified it. Why? In the beginning this may have made sense, but 1000's of lines and hundreds of hours later this makes no sense at all.

        Isn't the whole point of doing something this extravagant, to be able to eventually own the work and create your own custom game, which can't be turned off? Where you have a game that has your work as a static fact of the entire gameplay?

        I have the most powerful thing inside me to say and I just can't find the words! I can feel it though. It's not even "on the tip of my tongue", It's a growing spirit in the center of my chest and if I could harness and release it, you could not deny it's truth. I feel like I am failing you .

        For lack of the true words I have to settle for these:

        Your "mod" is too much of a ?pushover?. It's like:

        "Here is seven gabillion hours of my blood sweat and tears...and here is how you turn it all off. I was never here and I refuse to commit to existence. Play with my shadow, because I would hate to be something that you have to accept as concrete. I would be a tragedy if I were to exist in my own custom world. A world that is built specifically to display me and use all of my power to express the dedication that my maker put forth."

        These are still not the words, but they are the best I can do right now. I hope you understand that I write all of this with great respect for you, Seven...great respect for your dedication and talent as well. Otherwise, why would I even bother, right?

        You have all of the talent and half of the content to say "Psssh, Mod Quake? I've almost built a whole game!" Yet, you refuse to get past "Change a var and I was never even here."

        You're just sticking lipstick on a pig and explaining how to wipe it off, when you could bring all of your hard work to a whole new level and get rid of the pig altogether. I truly do not understand this mentality and maybe I never will. Create a face and put lipstick on that.
        Last edited by MadGypsy; 08-31-2013, 06:22 PM.


        • I have an example for you which is based on my own work and maybe this will add a little power to what I am trying so desperately to tell you.

          I mod Radiant files (much like you mod QC for DP). I started by making changes to the Q1 gamepack that comes standard with Radiant. When I first started, these were small changes and it barely even made sense for me to claim it was "my" work. Mainly because I didn't invent anything, I just reassigned things according to possibilities that already existed (much like your early work, footsteps, nails in walls, etc). Those weren't "your creation" those were fairly obvious possibilities that already existed and all you did was code them out and compile it.

          Then there came a point where I got to the build menu.Even though the script was very very small, this was the first spot where I actually had to do something completely external to accomplish a task. The content did not already exist, I made it exist (much like your spider for instance).

          Then I started bringing more content and possibilities to the table that did not exist within Radiant itself. My Gridz.wad is an example. As simple as it is, it was not a radiant mod. It was an "exploitation" of a radiant possibility (this may be similar to your particle font work or your .ent work, neither of which are in Quake or QC).

          Then I hit the big one, a complete game controller profile used to map in Radiant. This is not only NOT already in Radiant. It is a pretty original idea that completely changes the way you even use radiant. Your entire SMC changes the way you use Quake.

          To backtrack a bit, I also created an entire QC development environment and syntax plug-in for notepad++. This doesn't have a damn thing to do with Quake past it's meant for QC. This is MY work and it blows that other Qsomething editor out the water as, not only can you compile, but also run and test maps against an options menu. I can't say what you have done that is similar but I KNOW YOU HAVE! It's all part of the process of upgrading what is there with something more.

          Now we are at a point where I am not modifying I have constructed a completely new and more advanced q1 mapping environment that even carries over into modding QC. NOW, there is no more There is and it is MY work. Just like SMC is YOUR work and technically has little more to do with Quake (when run fully) than the fact it is for Darkplaces. Darkplaces is what you mod for, not Quake. Without DP you have nothing to even work with. Without Radiant and NP++ I have nothing to work with. Where is the Quake in this when it all comes down to it?

          In the beginning my stuff was small and unassuming. I have worked hard and a lot and blown to smithereens. You have blown Quake to smithereens. I can't remake because there is nothing to remake. None of my work ever existed for it in the first place. You cannot remake Quake because none of your work existed for it in the first place.

          Do you see how your greatest mod was your "lightswitch" and there is really no reason for it to be there at this point, because your work is so extensive that, to turn it off would defeat the purpose of having it in the first place? You have already made most of your own game. You just keep trying to convince yourself that it is "small" and unassuming, when in reality it is massive and pointless to ever turn off (save a feature here or there that may be too much for someones system or a tweak that provides an alternate content that the user may like more, but is still your work).

          kind regards,


          • any map with rain effects is pretty much smc-specific at least for dp. those rain effects apparently cause dp to error-to-console about missing named functions.
            remember that there's a difference between maps targetting smc, and smc not supporting maps that target generic-id1. the first limits the map but allows more features, the later limits the mod with the 'only' gain being less things that need testing/coding.

            regarding cvars, allowing users to disable stuff is all fine and good, but at some point they just won't know what the cvar is to disable some feature. The setting needs to either be in your face, or to be usable with the default value for 90% of users... The larger your mod gets, the worse it gets.
            if your code is modular, then cvar toggles to disable lots of modules is fine. however, when you have lots of interconnected dependancies (seriously, never read fteqcc's source code) then feature disables can get really messy really quickly, and it becomes a real maintainence nightmare as you now have 4+ times as many code paths to test+debug.

            > You're just sticking lipstick on a pig and explaining how to wipe it off
            Rather than complain about mg telling porkies, its the second part of that quote that really gets me - a user friendly project should not need lots of explainations on how to reconfigure it. Imho, SMC *really* needs some user-oriented menus to mess around with the numerous cvars. Also, get rid of .ent files too (use parseentitydata or something). I'm serious about that. Every feature which requires different ent files to enable/disable is an added conflict and user maintainence nightmare.
            Without that, I doubt many people will enjoy trying to change the defaults to something that better suits their tastes. Which defeats the point in even providing an option for it.

            the first 90% is spent writing lots of fun algorithms and new features. the second 90% is spent just polishing it all so that it shines. most people stop at only 100%... :s
            Some Game Thing


            • I think I believe in Seven and the recognize power of his work more than he does. It's all well and good to be modest, but when that modesty cripples the potential, it goes from being modesty to being wimpy. The quickest way to discredit yourself is to not give yourself any credit at all. There has to be a balance.


              • Hello,

                something happened last night (after I went to bed)
                A lot of text to read...

                First of all, Thank your for your time, effort and intention.
                There is always a big chance that I misunderstand some sentence/meanings, because of my bad english. So I hope I got your posts right.

                I would like to reply to Spikeīs post first, as this is the topic I have to deal with every day:
                You described it exactly correct and brought it to the point.
                - First I create a code for an idea I have.
                - Then I think about: How many people would like this idea and does it change the gameplay ?
                - Then I add the cvar-options-code into it (which sometimes means to double the code lines...)

                So, guessing and finding the correct "default" cvar setting is always a diffcult thing.
                I know, that due to the big amount of cvars, that the SMC now has, people rather not look into the autoexec.cfg; so a *good* cvar setting is important.

                But I think, without this effort (adjustability), this mod would only be used by half of the people.

                Regarding .ent files:
                I do not know if Spike downloaded the SMC once. I think not, because it is rather unspectacular. But you would see, that the SMC, as it comes out of the box has NO .ent files in its \maps folder.
                It has no waether effects nor map-specific particels or extra-models or what ever map related.
                That has a good reason, because I know that this would lead to issues.
                The SMC only gives the possibility to have weather and all this for Quake.
                It has these .ent files in a seperate folder in the .zip download which the user can use if they want.

                And if you have a DP error-crash to console due to these .ent files and missing named functions, it means, that you do NOT use the SMC. Cause otherwise there would be no crash, right ?
                Reason for users, who encounter these DP-to-console crashes, is that these .ent files also are downloadable in different othr threads and that makes them think, they only need DP for them, which is not correct. People do not like to read readmeīs, as you know

                As a short summarize:
                My target always was to not change the gameplay (let us keep the new monsters out for a minute). I only wanted to make as many Quake maps as possible (not only the ID1 ones) more fun/interesting to play.
                That was the main motivation for the default cvar settings.
                Giving the possibility to add some sounds, particles, features and also some slight gameplay mods if the user wanted.

                Now, with the new monsters I left this path and brought them in by default (with a chance of appearance of around 20%). Of course it must be possible to disable these new monsters. Which brought a lot of new cvars again
                But I like variation and I always try to keep the new monsters Quake-like.
                And I think it makes a lot of fun using them, that is why I did not disable them by default. Even though it intereferes with my main rule to keep the original gameplay...

                But lets be honest: The existing maps (also fan-made ones) have been played by users for a couple of times. You know exactly what monsters are waiting behind the corners/doors.
                Isnt it a nice variation to change this ? I think yes, so I put them in by default, to maybe bring back the "suprising"-factor we once had when playing it 1st time

                Hello Madgypsy,

                Also sock already told me it would be a good thing if I had a professional level designer and team up to make some new maps, specifically use the SMC things.

                But I think I can say in a few sentences why this is not worth the effort:
                Look at the maps from the outstanding mapper Necros for example:
                Necros use custom progs.datīs also many times in his maps.
                Lets take one simple example: "Zombies are killable with the axe"
                This feature is only playable in this one map by Necros.
                You can play this map 10 times, before it gets boring.
                And even if you like this feature a lot, you have no chance to use it in any other map.

                The SMC is a dirty bastard and hacks features into other (all) maps.

                Lets not take this 1 example with the axe-able zombies too serious, as it has of course a strategical meaning in Necors map, which might not fit into other maps, as it changes the gameplay. It was just an example to show what I mean.

                So, if the SMC would consist of 3 great maps. These 3 great maps would be playable about 10 times and they are getting old.
                I wanted to go another way, which is universal and map independent.

                Of course, if people would create maps with SMC specific things, it would be cool
                but I would not let go (it would be indenpendent) to my initial idea.

                But you are absolutely right, that we reached an amount of cvars which are a lot!
                And that would be a good point to end the development of the SMC.
                As I said before: Ideas are running out and additional monster types, we have enough now I guess.

                Best wishes,


                • Hello,

                  These are the 2 possible evil-texture-monsters:


                  • you got permission from the maker of that first model to use it in the SMC?
                    if so, thats absolutely awesome!

                    that top model looks so much cooler then sitters lost soul,
                    and matches the wall-texture way more
                    are you curious about what all there is out there in terms of HD content for quake?
                    > then make sure to check out my 'definitive' HD replacement content thread! <
                    everything that is out there for quake and both mission-packs, compiled into one massive thread


                    • There is never a "good time" to stop developing SMC Seven! I like variety even if there are numerous cvars!!
                      I'm sure many others will agree!


                      • absolutely agree with gdiddy!

                        dun give up and stop, the SMC is uber-awesome right now but there will always be ways to make it even more awesome, and there'll always come more ideas for features that could be added to make the SMC even more awesome <3
                        are you curious about what all there is out there in terms of HD content for quake?
                        > then make sure to check out my 'definitive' HD replacement content thread! <
                        everything that is out there for quake and both mission-packs, compiled into one massive thread


                        • Cant wait to try your new version Seven.
                          And -
                          If you dont know, you cant stop SMC!
                          You have the force.

                          btw. SMC can stand for "Super Mario Collection"

                          Just a joke Seven. I love your mod.

                          I like this emoticons from Deviantart!


                          • You "win", Seven. I'm not going to come here and keep bugging you to advance your work to the next level. It is really pretty clear that you are convinced there is no point. I will never agree with you, but I can respect your decision. I actually could give you the counter argument to your current argument and we could continue this til you completely run out of arguments, what is the point in that though?

                            However, If you ever change your mind (even though my map skills are still maturing and right now they are about "9 years old" [metaphorically]) I would be honored to help you. I would be willing to take the time to "sit down with you" and invent the geometry, item/monster placement, etc. that would highlight all of your hard work and really put an exclamation point on your efforts. This offer does not expire.

                            I'd also be willing to teach you everything I know about Radiant in the process, which is a whooooole freakin lot, but oddly not that complicated because you wouldn't have to do all the "figuring out" that I did. Kinda like if you just started telling me everything you know about DP... there is no guess work, it would be all facts.


                            • The first evil monster looks way more like the wall texture, use that one.

                              I'd much rather have occassional new updates to SMC (like Grimrock ent files) than a few amazing maps. Unless the maps come with story and voice acting, like Nehahra, but I assume that's beyond the goals of the planned maps. But if Seven wants to stop updating the SMC, he can go ahead and make the maps if he wants, as long as the final SMC will be open-source.


                              • No offense to the author (whomever that is) but the model in that lower image looks ridiculous to me.