Small Mod compilation

[Seven]

Kudos on your latest addition Seven. It looks real good in the game. I think the lil hop the monster does after walking for a second is "cute".

Thank you,
But I think you will first find out if it really looks good in-game ,when you try it
We are working hard on the gib models of the spider, wich is the last open thing to do. We are even going in 2 independent ways of doing it. One of these ways will lead to success hopefully.

Regarding the animations:
It all began with the unused animations of the ID monsters:
- soldier
- knight
- ogre
which are optionally used in the "small mod compilation" now.

I tried to bring more realism and variation into the spider as well.
The idle/stand animation consists of 3 different animation sequences, which are spawned randomly.
Also the walk animation has 2 sets now.
The melee attack animation has 3 animation sets.
It was a pleasure to bring all of Psionics animation ideas into the game. I only had to modify them a little bit, but not much.
That is what makes the little beast almost feel "real".

The sounds must never be underestimated.
They make half of the experience compared to visuals.
That is what I had to learn. Hopefully people will like it too.

Kind regards,
Seven.

[MadGypsy]

But I think you will first find out if it really looks good in-game, when you try it.

:/ you knew what I was saying.



But you ignored my other question:

Is there plans/hopes/wishes for SMC to eventually mean "Seven Mages of Chaos" (or something)?

ie - when does all your hard and talented work become a game of it's own, a full conversion?

[Seven]

I think this is not a serious question. I am nowhere as good as this could happen.
The idea of the "small mod compilation" is to be a subtle mod, which makes the original game more fun/interesting to play. When you disable some things, you should not recognize it at all. It should not interfere the gameplay, so a total conversion is not what I am targeting.

Unfortunately it is engine-dependent due to the extensions it uses.
But that was the only way to make use of the 'auto_cvar' function and with it the possibilty to adjust its features.

That way I want to make this mod accesable to a bigger number of users. So that it can be adjusted to personal likings.
I am sure, without this possibility, nobody would play it.

PS: The spider will only be an addon pack (cause it changes the gameplay).

[MadGypsy]

It was a very serious question. I understand what the SMC is/does. I also understand that there is an entirely new game there. You haven't created subtle features that people can turn on and off. You have created the majority of a game that people can build with c_vars. With every new thing you add (adjustable or not) your complete creation becomes bigger and the original game becomes different.

You are too humble. Everything is "small" (supposedly) and "minor". Let's take a look at that.

1) particle font manipulation - check
2) QC programming - check
3) different models - check
4) new game elements - check
5) extensive knowledge of your engine - check
6) texture manipulation - check

I consolidated heavily with generalizations but you are some map experience away from a game of your own. What is so "small" and "subtle" about dipping your hand into almost every step of game creation and pulling out works of art every time? People have learned how to do some of this stuff because of you (gdiddy).

Surely, you have to be nuts if you honestly believe that no one would play a game that you made. I'm talking about one that you cant c_var in and out of existence. A real game.

[gdiddy62]

Seven has taught me much I agree, and his humbleness makes him great IMO.

MadGypsy has good points about your talents Seven.

[talisa]

well i agree with you that its a ton of things gypsy, but everything seven added are still really small touches. small things which make quake more interesting, some which make it feel more modern, some small things which make it more fancy, but mostly just some small features which feel like they were just simply left out in original quake cuz it ws rushed so much.

theres only a few features from the smc which change gameplay at all, rest is just small touches to make quake feel more interesting, feel more modern, or stuff that feels like it belongs in quake but was left out cuz ID rushed the heck out of quake

[Seven]

Hello MadGypsy,

I am not sure if I understood everything in your post (my english...).
The part with "map creation", which is needed for a new game, is the most time expensive part. If you look at the high quality fan-made maps from the well-known mapping gods at func board forum, it will bring tears in ones eyes.
Those maps cannot be build in a short time.
And for a "New Game" one would need lots of them...
So a new game is heavily depending on new maps construction time. And high quality maps cannot be made by someone who never made maps before. Experiemce is the key.

And that is what I want to avoid.
The "small mod compilation" should be usable for all maps (without a own progs.dat).

I follow a lot of great and talented people at inside3d. And I see the pain and workload of good mapping.



@ Splitterface

You would not say this, if you knew what code changes have been neccessary to get the "small mod compilation" where it is today.
It was more than you would expect.
The visible things might be "small" for you, but the realisation and development was not...
Beside this, the smc is not the only thing for Quake I worked on, which you might have noticed. But that is another story.


// =============


@ all

There is this small idea I had for several weeks now:
The lightning gun is somehow different to the other weapons in my opinion.
Its energy shaft produces high energy which is unbelievable hot and powerful.
The first step to underline this into the game is already done:
New impact particle effect when lightning shaft touches walls/ents.

But I want to do the next step:
The monsters, which are killed by this weapon shall have a different visual.
Their body have been pumped with high energy, right ?
Why not make them look like this ?
Like someone who has touched a high-voltage cable...
The body/corpses shall be darkened (a bit like burned). Like coal !

And the body/corpse shall not lying on the floor.
It shall be "frozen" in a pain state, darkened like coal.
The monsters dead face and body position shall be expressing the unbelievable pain of the energy that made them die.

I already implemented that, but want to hear your honest opinions about it.

Process:
- When a monster is killed with lightning gun
- They shall be transform into a pain animation frame
(a little like the staues of Mission pack 2, before they awake)
- Their skin are darkened
- They remain in this condition until you release them with a single shot (any weapon)
- They will then be split into a thousand pieces (like coal or glass)

Would anyone want this optional feature ?

Kind regards,
Seven

PS: It works a little bit like the special "freeze" weapon in Duke 3D, but visual is like "burned coal" and when shot, they split into "coal-pieces"

[gdiddy62]

You know me Seven, I'd like it...and it makes sense with that weapon.Another angle of it would be to have them freeze as you mention but then disintegrate into dust (ala Grimrock effect) when shot.

I love how you are always thinking of how to make Quake better..this is just another good idea of many you come up with!

[MadGypsy]

Seven,

I am an incredibly smart guy. I don't go around willy-nilly telling people that they have the power to accomplish something. I have picked a large potion of your work apart and I may know just as much about what is going on in the SMC as you do.

If I say - "Seven - you could make an entire game, primarily based on work that you have already done.", then that means I have taken the time to "size you up" (so to speak) and I see AT LEAST your potential

@Time Mapping- was time a factor when you went to the trouble to build the SMC up to what it is today?

@Noob Mapper - uh, at one point you were a noob everything, and now you're not.

@Splitter says small, seven says wait -you can't have it both ways man. You either recognize that you have added major changes or you can stay on the path of denial and claim that everything barely exists. You can't do both.

I personally am only willing to accept 2 possibilities:

1) you dig in and turn SMC into a completed original work
2) you simply admit that whereas you COULD do this, maybe it isn't something that you desire to do.

All the other "can't" possibilities are gonna be completely ignored by me. I refuse to believe that you "can't", I am positive that you CAN. This is why I am being the lil angel or devil (pick one) on your shoulder, attempting to plant inspiration in you.

I think it's a shame that you consider your work to be "a Quake modification". None of the stuff that you created/used was already in Quake (or barely any). Almost all of your modifications are geared more towards the engine than the game. Your stuff looks good in Quake, but it isn't Quake. Maybe it's Seven's: Major Engine Exploiter or Sevens: Better Than Quake - Quakeable additions.

Why release the spider as a separate pack? This could be THE first step in building YOUR thing. Honestly, what is there left for you to "subtly" do to Quake? I mean, damn man, the only thing you haven't changed is the actual maps and there is no way to really do that subtly.

SMC 10:
1) 40 different swirls to water texture
2) 600 possible torches
3) All monsters can be replaced with characters from Dr. Who
4) you can turn your entire computer off with c_vars {snort}
5) check your email from any console in Quake

Maybe you could take a page out of sock's book and splice original Quake map chunks together and re-texture everything. Bluntz had never mapped before and once he got over the configuration hump he was rebuilding chunks of Earth down to the nanometer (!LOL!). You can do it, man. You. Can. Do. It.

I'm not a mega pro like some of these guys, but I know some stuff, especially about getting Radiant to play nice on windows and function as intended. I also know how to write the radiant .ent files properly, which is absolutely necessary to get your entities in the game (the right way - placed in the map before any compile). If you get serious about it, let me know. There are ways that I can be valuable. I'd MAKE time to help you.

EDIT:

The "small mod compilation" should be usable for all maps (without a own progs.dat).

Yes. I agree, SMC should work on all maps BUT that means the SMC should work on YOUR maps when added to the rest of YOUR game.

I know I'm a dirty dog, but I speak the truth.

You have this new LG idea and an original robot model. I would be trying to figure out how those 2 things interact with each other. Implement your own creation.

[Mr.Burns]

Hello
all

There is this small idea I had for several weeks now:
The lightning gun is somehow different to the other weapons in my opinion.
Its energy shaft produces high energy which is unbelievable hot and powerful.
The first step to underline this into the game is already done:
New impact particle effect when lightning shaft touches walls/ents.

But I want to do the next step:
The monsters, which are killed by this weapon shall have a different visual.
Their body have been pumped with high energy, right ?
Why not make them look like this ?
Like someone who has touched a high-voltage cable...
The body/corpses shall be darkened (a bit like burned). Like coal !

And the body/corpse shall not lying on the floor.
It shall be "frozen" in a pain state, darkened like coal.
The monsters dead face and body position shall be expressing the unbelievable pain of the energy that made them die.

I already implemented that, but want to hear your honest opinions about it.

Process:
- When a monster is killed with lightning gun
- They shall be transform into a pain animation frame
(a little like the staues of Mission pack 2, before they awake)
- Their skin are darkened
- They remain in this condition until you release them with a single shot (any weapon)
- They will then be split into a thousand pieces (like coal or glass)

Would anyone want this optional feature ?

Kind regards,
Seven

PS: It works a little bit like the special "freeze" weapon in Duke 3D, but visual is like "burned coal" and when shot, they split into "coal-pieces"

Hi Seven,

This sounds great for DP users. It might help if take a look at the Chain LG in the painkeep mod which does go some way along this path although not as extensively and to the same high standard as you describe. When fired it tends to "lock on" to your opponent and fry them until they are black and crispy or you run out of cells. I've always liked that and this sounds even more effective.

Keep up the great work Seven

One day I'll try the dark side and get DP, one day

Warmest regards

Monty

[talisa]

@seven
oh no no, i dont mean subtle as in that it was easy to do, i mean subtle as in that it are features that feel like they fit in quake and dont change anything to gameplay and such.

i could only dream myself of being able to code all the amazing-ness that you coded, i didnt mean it at all that it was simple things you did.



the LG idea sounds definetely like an interesting idea
would be intersted to see what you'd do with this and how it would look in-game

[Seven]

Dear all,

Am I crazy, or could this be an interesting feature for the lightning gun ?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgNr7bHX_e4&list=UUbX7uVIXqMzBza0YmLJuMdw& index=1]Quake lightning gun modification - YouTube[/ame]

This is an optional lightning gun “behavior” / feature.
Enemies, which are killed with the lightning gun will be baked to coal.
The baked monsters are semi-solid !
They don’t interfere/block your way. You can walk right through them.
And you still can shoot them with any weapon.
They will automagically fall into pieces after an adjustable time (default = 5s),
or by shooting them with any weapon if you want

I created 4 different particle effect sizes (trying to match the individual monster sizes).
And added a nice little sound effect that supports it.

If you want, you can download and try it: DOWNLOAD

These are the new cvars to control this effect:
(add them to your autoexec.cfg and feel free to change them)

// new cvars:
set lightninggun_death_animation 1	// "0"= disabled "1"= enabled: The monsters which are killed with lighnting gun, will have a new death animation: Coaled to death. They remain in a pain state until they are shot (or automatically after a set time), they will fall apart.
set coaled_monster_lifetime 5		// Sets the lifetime of coaled monsters (when killed with lightning gun) before they fall apart (in seconds).
//

I hope you have some fun with it.

Kind regards,
Seven

[gdiddy62]

Had a few moments and tried this and love the effect Seven!


I have a couple of observations I'll share. when using the lightning gun on wizards I think It would be appropriate for them to disintegrate to dust (or whatever we're calling it) when they fall from the air rather than staying frozen when they hit the ground. This makes sense in my mind but maybe not others minds? Also, this may not look as good, but can the ashes or coals look darker?It might be similar to the flies that it is harder to see, but I think it would look better darker.

The sound-effect rocks. I never gave as much attention to the importance of sound until you pointed it out to me and now I notice how much we rely on it to make the game!!

Cool idea and awesome implementation Seven!!!

[talisa]

hmm interesting idea, but the way you worked it out is not really something i like. i dun like the shattering, it makes no sense. the enemy got zapped, not turned into stone

would make more sense if you mebbe made enemies mebbe suddenly freeze their movements and then after a few seconds suddenly tip over like a brick

but making them suddenly shatter into dirt seems a bit strange to me. they got shocked, not petrified

[webangel]

when using the lightning gun on wizards I think It would be appropriate for them to disintegrate to dust (or whatever we're calling it) when they fall from the air rather than staying frozen when they hit the ground.

This is a good idea!

Also, this may not look as good, but can the ashes or coals look darker?

Yeah, please make it darker...

Everthing else - GREAT WORK Seven!

@splitterface:
The time for bricking is adjustable. So I think this is OK.
Just set the time to 1sek.