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"DP Pretty Water" Update

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  • Seven
    replied
    hgdagon,

    Oh, you are pretty wrong when you compare me with JC.
    People like Spike, divVerent, LH and others should be compared with JC.

    I am just a simple user of their work, and not even a good one, who obviously spends too much time with it instead of enjoying real life.



    Originally posted by Cobalt View Post
    The fog command as it is now, fogs the entire level....non solid brush areas. How hard would it be to alter that code so that it only fogs liquid brushes? Copy n paste and declare it as a new waterfog function in the engine?
    Knightmare gave an interesting answer in your other thread at inside3d concerning this, but he only spoke about enabling it when beeing inside of water, which is not sufficient/satisfying in my opinion. As also when looking from outside into water, the effect should be there, so it should "always" be there (as shown in the screenshots).


    Originally posted by Cobalt View Post
    The other idea is similar to what we have to do for rain, where we define a box for the particles, only this time the box we define in QC will define the fog for the liquid. Speaking of that, I thought there was a tutorial with the rain and snow to fog the level, but I guess it must uyse the global fog cvar as it stands now.
    Yes, that is what I was referring to in above post. I asked LH what it would mean to have a "local" fog, which can be locked up in a cube with not only z-limit but also x and y. And if possible multiple cubes of them (one for each water lake) in a map. His answer I posted above ...

    But nevertheless it is an interesting topic, even though water is not really intensly used in Quake1 and therefore has not a big meaning like in other games.

    It would still be great to have "local" fog in special areas/rooms of a map (without water) to have spooky / scrary moments when playing Quake. World fog cannot be used as it is all over the map with the same properties.
    Local fog would amplify the ambience of some singe player maps a lot and I can only guess, but a lot of mappers would be happy to have it as an option for some map areas...

    In the end, there is always the possibility to use some amount of particles to emit/simulate fog in small areas. But they are usualy performance hungry...

    Leave a comment:


  • Cobalt
    replied
    Hi Seven

    Yes, very good post, thanks.

    My thought regarding the fog idea is yea, it would only be for new maps obeying a discipline when creating water...the current ID maps would not benefit from this at all.

    The fog command as it is now, fogs the entire level....non solid brush areas. How hard would it be to alter that code so that it only fogs liquid brushes? Copy n paste and declare it as a new waterfog function in the engine?

    The other idea is similar to what we have to do for rain, where we define a box for the particles, only this time the box we define in QC will define the fog for the liquid. Speaking of that, I thought there was a tutorial with the rain and snow to fog the level, but I guess it must uyse the global fog cvar as it stands now.

    Leave a comment:


  • hgdagon
    replied
    @Seven
    Sometimes I think you're John Carmack in disguise. In-depth knowledge in Quake, and in-depth answer to every question! Thanks again for being there!

    Leave a comment:


  • Seven
    replied
    Attention, wall of text ahead.


    Hello Cobalt,

    While working with the dark/dirty water from last post, I am beginning to like it more and more. It makes use of DP´s z-limit and fade-option for regular world fog, which acts then a little bit like Q3´s volumetric fog. We had a discussion about it in another thread a while ago and how nice it would be to be able to lock up fog in a cube with limiting borders in X and Y as well. LH told me at that time this would need pretty much rendering work, so I doubt he is interested in working on it …

    But the existing world fog can be pretty well used for new fan-made maps, because the mappers focus can be set to keep all water lakes in a map at the same world z-level.
    Then this dirty/dark method water can be used really good. And it looks more realistic from inside and outside of the water lakes compared to without. Unfortunately that is also the limitation for existing/original maps, as most maps have water lakes at different z-coordinates throughout the map.


    Regarding the other variations that you mentioned:
    Smith´s water variation is quite similar to Ver. 0.55, as it uses similar shader work.
    Webangel´s has a quite different look as she uses a totally different way for creating the water movement: dp_waterscroll
    While regular DP Pretty Water uses tc_mod scroll to move the water in a continues flow, the dp_waterscroll shader keyword creates waves without continuous movement. Which looks more realistic (especially in small water lakes where movement is impossible normally). You can combine both as well.
    What I personal would change in webangel´s pretty water pack is the amount of movement and the wave sizes. The actual condition makes it almost impossible to see something inside the water from the outside. I personally like to be able to slightly see what is beneath it, which is on the other hand not realistic I know, but I prefer it this way. Otherwise you would not need the alpha layer in the texture. But editing dp_waterscroll is as easy as editing tc_mod scroll to adjust the individual water movement to ones personal liking. dp_waterscroll was designed for that purpose and creates the best looking waves/movement in my opinion (after fine tuning).


    Regarding the used water textures:
    Webangel´s pretty water has no "dds shader". The shader itself is independent to the used texture format. You could write in the mapping shader keyword line to use .jpg and Darkplaces will use .tga or .dds if it finds it (following dp´s format priority rules). So more or less only the name of the file is important (not the format extension).
    As far as I understood your question (you know my poor English…), you would like to use regular world textures with your shader. Yes, that is of course possible. The line where the mapped texture is defined must link to your normal world textures (ex: textures/xxxx), and makes it thereby unneccesary. This way the same texture will be used in the shader which normally would be used without the shader (following standard engine replacement locations/names). But for dp_water you will most probably want special dedicated textures which look good with it. But it depends of course how you want it to look. They are in actual condition placed in mod/textures/water/xxxx, so they will not be used without the shader.

    Regards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cobalt
    replied
    Those look promising Seven, however in the 3rd screenshot you posted up there, had you noticed the water is reflecting even when you are beneath the surface? The wooden bridge struts seem to be reflecting on the side facing the liquid. To me this does not seem right. Ok, the murkier / dirtier the water is, naturally would be less reflective overall so that makes sense and probably works as you say depending on texture opacity.

    The flavor Im seeking would use the id1/textures/mapname folder (if supplied) to override the (2) water textures I am seeing in your water_dp.zip , and still shade the tga file using the current system. I am not sure is that possible? Do we merely remove the supplied water (tga) files to do that?

    I have also tried Webangels DDS shader which is interesting too, but Smiths version does not sem to be up anymore, the link is broke.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seven
    replied
    Hello,

    Unfortunately, the "Dirty version" doesnt work since october 2011 DP build anymore.
    Due to a DP related shader change. Specifically 'blendfunc filter' visual/usage has been drasticaly changed. That already affected the teleporter as some might remember...

    But then I had an idea and tried something with really impressive result.
    The pictures below shows the situation with regular "DP pretty water" and a "dark/dirty version" inside and outside of the water.

    It gets darker, the deeper/further it gets... it is best to see on the walls/tunnel.
    Also reflections get less on dark/dirty water.





    I used an evil/dirty hack of course to make this as you might have guessed, which needs engine support that is not possible yet. But maybe in the future...
    The water would really benefit from it...

    Best regards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cobalt
    replied
    I would be interested in that dirty water version Seven, if you can post the link it would be neat.

    Also, those sample screenshots you supplied are interesting. Would a murkier / dirtier water like the one showing in e1m2 up there reflect anything on the surface at all? To me these all seem to be showing enough transparency to leave us with the impression the water beneath is actually clear / transparent.....with perhaps some junk or dirt floating on the surface. I suppose this is ok to cover that kind of possibility, but it comes back to I guess having the engine "fog" the liquid content in some way based on the parameters of the corresponding texture being used.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seven
    replied
    talisa,

    Who told you this ? That is not true / Does not apply to DP.
    Did you tried this before you replied ?



    Hello hgdagon,

    First of all, you need this list: click me
    It will tell you exactly which water/slime texture is used in which map.
    Based on this you can see which water/slime texture you have to edit to get the result to your personal likings.

    I am not sure if I understood you correctly, as you said you cannot use the "DP pretty water" due to your computer hardware.

    If you only want to edit the water texture (without using "DP pretty water"), you have to open that texture in your favorite texture editor and make your modifications. Any replacement supporting engine will use it if you put it into the correct subfolder.

    If you want to use "DP pretty water", you have 2 possibilities:
    A) Once you found in above mentioned list which water/slime texture you want to edit, open that texture inside the "DP pretty water" package and do it exactly like described above (for usage without "DP pretty water").
    B) You can also adjust the alpha of the water/slime textures inside the "DP pretty water" without editing the textures themselves:
    Open the .shader file inside the "DP pretty water" package and adjust the dp_water shader keyword.
    These are its values:
    dp_water <reflectmin> <reflectmax> <refractdistort> <reflectdistort> <refractr> <refractg> <refractb> <reflectr> <reflectg> <reflectb> <alpha>
    You will get the biggest affect when modifying the last value. Raise it to make the water less transparent and thereby "dirtier". ATTENTION: Values above "1" are possible !



    Here are 2 comparisms screenshots if you only want to do option B) (as described above).
    Just playing around with the alpha value to show something...




    If you edit the texture themselves, you will get of course a much better affect.


    I once made a "Dirty water" version which combined A) and B) by request of some users several years ago. Its last version was V0.41. If you are interested I can send it to you.

    Best wishes.

    Leave a comment:


  • talisa
    replied
    @hgdagon
    you can adjust the transparentness of those easily by opening the shader in the pk3 and changing the qer_trans line of each texture

    you can just open the shader with notepad or word since its nothing more then a text-file


    afaik setting the number to a higher value will make the water more opaque

    Leave a comment:


  • hgdagon
    replied
    Despite the fact that my video card's too old for me to use this, I still like this project. I just wanted to ask (if I could use it) is it possible to adjust the "dirtiness" of the water? In the screenshots it looks clearer than I imagine/prefer. Also note, I want to modify exactly the dirty water, without affecting slime and clear water (e.g. the river in e1m1).

    Leave a comment:


  • Cobalt
    replied
    Ok, I also noticed this will fix the problem:

    sv_cullentities_pvs 0

    Somewhat of a FPS hit, but is it simpler to use this than revizin'g the maps per say?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cobalt
    replied
    Hrm...Im trying Webangels version with the dds shaders etc. Looks pretty good , only the entities seem to not get drawn when you think they should...



    Is this because the maps need to be vized?

    OOps, disregard this, yea I just found the link for the Viz'd ID maps, and they take care of this problem.....
    Last edited by Cobalt; 06-19-2014, 08:19 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seven
    replied
    Originally posted by xolve View Post
    Not even remotely true, Seven, but you're welcome to hold a grudge.
    Some of us have lives, and don't waste time arguing.
    Ciao-
    Matt
    Hello xolve,

    It has been a long time since you vanished out of this forum and asked Baker/Solecord to delete your thread, where all the “bad things” happened and OoPpEe even published one of your pm´s with insults and disrespects towards several authors.
    Clever trick of yours, hehe. Only the people who visited this forum at that time know, what a bad person you really are and what you did. But that is OK. At least I know
    Psshht, don’t tell anyone… It is a secret.

    Thank you for taking your precious time and write some lines into this thread, as you are a really busy man.
    If you want to continue writing about your past, go ahead. I am looking forward to have a nice and interesting conversation with you.

    It is still sad that you do not stand to what you have done though. After all the time…
    But now that you came back, we sure can expect an “Epsilon 2” soon. Where everything is better.

    Best regards.

    Leave a comment:


  • xolve
    replied
    Not even remotely true, Seven, but you're welcome to hold a grudge.
    Some of us have lives, and don't waste time arguing.
    Ciao-
    Matt

    Leave a comment:


  • Seven
    replied
    Originally posted by Condor-2-4-2 View Post
    [...]
    I use the DP Pretty Water Mod v0.55 with the Darkplaces Epsilon-Build.
    [...]
    Hello Condor-2-4-2,

    I am not quite sure if it is clear what the so called "Darkplaces Epsilon-Build" is.
    It is only an accumulation of replacement files from mainly this forum here.
    The person who made this, did this without the permission of original authors.
    There have been several authors, that asked the person to not include their work, as his intentions have not been good.
    He refused to accept their request and released it.
    End of a sad story...

    Having that said, it is good that you are looking for updated versions of its replacement files. As almost all of the included replacement files are outdated.

    Best is, to start from scratch and make your own compilation of existing replacements (including an up-to-date Darkplaces build and updated qc mod).



    Originally posted by Condor-2-4-2 View Post
    the mod is already activated in the config file, but the green slime doesn't appear.
    If you are using the Darkplaces 64-bit-only version, be sure to also check your My Documents/My Games/Darkplaces folder, as it tends to write config data into there.



    Originally posted by Condor-2-4-2 View Post
    [...] Is there a command to deactivate the visibilty of the players body when I walk in the water?
    Yes, as described above, the so called "Darkplaces Epsilon-Build" is outdated in every aspect. Update the SMC version at least, or even better start to build your own compilation of choice. All you need (= all that the person used for that compilation) is in this forum.



    Originally posted by Syluxguy28O3 View Post
    ah i was trying to remember the cvar to fix the pretty water. thanks.
    It is written inside the readme.txt for your convenience


    Kind regards,
    Seven

    Leave a comment:

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