Quake Reforged Project

[TR2N]

Hello osjclatchford,

Chthon´s shader is also in my opinion too slow. So i made it faster changing.
Its all done by editing his AnimMap frequency.
I set it to 0.3.

Kind Regards,
Seven

Editing what??

[Seven]

Hello TR2N,

didnt you post the shader yesterday ?

If you want to make Chthon´s skin change frequency faster, you have to edit the shader.
Reforged Team put all monster and head shaders into one big file.
The one you posted yesterday.

Now find Chthon´s part in it and edit the AnimMap frequency.
It has been set by Reforged Team to 0.2
Change it to a bigger value. Thats it.
In my personal opinion 0.3 is better (due to reasons osjclatchford explained).

If you have further questions, I will be happy to help.

Kind Regards,
Seven


EDITED:
I want to pay Reforged Team a compliment, in having the idea of
using shaders for skin textures.
The "heartbeat" idea for oldone is really brilliant.
Imaging the possibilities in using shaders for weapon skins !

And now on top of that, imagine Ruohis wonderful weapon models, combined with
beautiful skins from ooppee together with breathtaking shaders.
That would be outstanding...

[osjclatchford]

Thanks seven I'll give that a whirl.

...and

I want to pay Reforged Team a compliment, in having the idea of
using shaders for skin textures.
The "heartbeat" idea for oldone is really brilliant.
Imaging the possibilities in using shaders for weapon skins !

And now on top of that, imagine Ruohis wonderful models, combined with
beautiful skins from ooppee together with breathtaking shaders.
That would be outstanding...

HELL yeah to that! thats exactly what I was thinking...

...mmm animated lava nailguns... *head back drooling*

[BEEF34T3R]

Oh, fanally. Hell Yeah!
Impressive work! Congratulations!

One note: skins do not react on ambient world lighting and they are too bright with luma maps in darkplaces. Fixed that by deleting all _luma files (from the progs folder). Now lighting and brightness are perfect, i'd recommend this method to everyone. But do we lose any visuals without lumas? Can't guess.

[TR2N]

Hello TR2N,

didnt you post the shader yesterday ?

If you want to make Chthon´s skin change frequency faster, you have to edit the shader.
Reforged Team put all monster and head shaders into one big file.
The one you posted yesterday.

Now find Chthon´s part in it and edit the AnimMap frequency.
It has been set by Reforged Team to 0.2
Change it to a bigger value. Thats it.
In my personal opinion 0.3 is better (due to reasons osjclatchford explained).

If you have further questions, I will be happy to help.

Kind Regards,
Seven


EDITED:
I want to pay Reforged Team a compliment, in having the idea of
using shaders for skin textures.
The "heartbeat" idea for oldone is really brilliant.
Imaging the possibilities in using shaders for weapon skins !

And now on top of that, imagine Ruohis wonderful weapon models, combined with
beautiful skins from ooppee together with breathtaking shaders.
That would be outstanding...

Hi Seven,

which value do you mean, there is nothing set to 0.2:

progs/oldone.mdl_0
{

	{
	map progs/blood_3.tga
	tcMod scale 6 3
	tcMod scroll 0 -0.08
	depthWrite
	rgbGen identity
	}

	{
	animMap 16 progs/oldone.mdl_0.tga progs/oldone.mdl_1.tga progs/oldone.mdl_2.tga progs/oldone.mdl_3.tga progs/oldone.mdl_4.tga progs/oldone.mdl_3.tga progs/oldone.mdl_2.tga progs/oldone.mdl_1.tga
	alphaGen vertex
	rgbGen identity
	blendFunc GL_SRC_ALPHA GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA
	depthFunc equal
	}

	{
      	map $lightmap
      	rgbGen identity
    	blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
     	depthFunc equal
	}

One note: skins do not react on ambient world lighting and they are too bright with luma maps in darkplaces. Fixed that by deleting all _luma files (from the progs folder). Now lighting and brightness are perfect, i'd recommend this method to everyone. But do we lose any visuals without lumas? Can't guess.

??

[Seven]

BEEF34T3R,

I cannot confirm this.
Luma textures have indeed an important visual impact in dark areas.
Especially with DarkPlaces.
Deleting them (doesnt matter on monsters or weapons or other models)
will take away a very beautiful effect.
Just look at these screenshots for example as evidence:

from here (the hazard symbol on the ammo box)
or from here (the eyes from scrag)
.

So I highly do not recommend to delete them.
The skins will lose much of their scary look and atmosphere.
If they had no impact, Reforged Team or any other modder would not have created them.

If you see no impact from luma texture in your Quake, there must be something wrong.
Or if the skins are simply too bright for you, darken them with an editor.

Kind Regards,
Seven



EDITED:

@ TR2N:
What you showed isnt Chton. It is Oldone
This is Chton:

progs/boss.mdl_0
{

{
animMap 0.2 progs/boss.mdl_0.tga progs/boss.mdl_0.tga progs/boss.mdl_0.tga progs/boss.mdl_0.tga progs/boss.mdl_1.tga progs/boss.mdl_2.tga progs/boss.mdl_3.tga progs/boss.mdl_4.tga progs/boss.mdl_5.tga progs/boss.mdl_6.tga progs/boss.mdl_6.tga progs/boss.mdl_6.tga progs/boss.mdl_6.tga progs/boss.mdl_7.tga progs/boss.mdl_8.tga
alphaGen vertex
rgbGen identity
depthFunc equal
}

{
map $lightmap
rgbGen identity
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
depthFunc equal
}

}

[TR2N]

@Seven,

yes, i found it out myself.. ;-)

Seven, which models and skins do you use??

[Seven]

TR2N,

take a deep breath and dive into the subforum: finished-works

You will be suprised, what jewels you will find there.

If you mean that specific scrag from above screenshot,
it is Obi-Wan´s model and skin. Remodeled for Quake 1 by ooppee.
The shambler is Andrew Joll´s work.

Its all there in the subfolder.

Kind Regards,
Seven

[BEEF34T3R]

Seven,
But, as i said, i lose these perpixel lighting effects with lumas.

Examples:

With luma maps:



Deleted luma maps on got beauty:



Soo?

[osjclatchford]

must admit it can seem better on some monsters but it all depends on the enviroment.
you will loose the glowing eys etc on some critters but its all down to taste in the end...

*edited*
also, skins with no luma file tend to exaggerate the low-poly nature of the model they are on as the dp rt-lighting tends to 'black-out' any areas in shadow without luma, where as with the luma in place, the detail (from the luma texture) will 'shine' through the shadows, creating a smoother transition between light and dark. (this is why most lumas are oftimes simply slightly darker versions of the main file, except for lights/glowing eyes etc... as these are intended to always be seen at 100% visibility, no matter what the lighting)

OR
put simply; lumas = textures/skins that ignore darkness/shadows.

(please correct me if I'm wrong)

[Seven]

@ BEEF34T3R

your screen WITH luma look wired to me.
Your config seems to have an issue ?

Your complete monster body is totally overbright with luma.
That is not normal in my opinion.
Do you use parallax mapping ?

I would start again with a new fresh config file.
Adding RT world, then RT shadows, then Parallax mapping one after the other.

These are mine (using Reforged skins):

with luma
without luma


On top of that:
Just as osjclatchford mentioned.
It is difficult to create luma, gloss, or glow textures.
You need the right hand and sense for it.
You can always change it with a regular freeware picture editor.

Kind Regards,
Seven

[LambentHammerBurst]

The luma maps are great in Reforged, but IMO they need to have their brightness reduced by 50-75%.
However it all depends on your preferences. Some find them great as is, others want them gone and myself - I keep them but reduce the effect.

[Nergal]

Thanks guys,
we’re glad you like the skins and we’re ready to fix all the little mistakes made here and there:
-heads with no blodd: WTF!! I’ll upload the right versions asap
-typos in the shader file: corrected file + comments if you want to change things
-website wrong links

Tell me if something’s missing.



@osjclatchford: the original animation was much longer and fluid but I didn’t want to impact the loading time so much; now it’s reduced to a bunch of frames and slowled to conceal the jumps.
It lasts roughly the duration of the fight, but you can tweak the Animap parameter, as Seven said.

@ BEEF34T3R: it’s better to tweak your settings than deleting _luma files. Trust me

@Seven: yup, but it’s all thanks to Lordhavok for having implemented the shader support, even if partially.
You can’t imagine how much we downgraded from our original concepts: for example, Shub should have had also veins pumping blood but it wasn’t feasible with only 5 frames

I started making animations for normal monsters too (remember the bleeding zombie?), but stopped soon because there’s no enough time to look at the skin before you’ve to kill the monster, so it seemed a bit worthless to me.

I’d really like to have the same shader complexity as when I used to make q3 maps, or at least a few parameters of choice (q3map_fur please )

@ooppee: yup, it depends a lot from your settings, there's no way but tweak them if you don't want to conform yours to ours.

[Seven]

Nergal,

thank you for your words.
Did LH limited the animation quantity to 5 ?
I can hardly believe it.
Normaly you can add up to 8 textures.
But thats still few...

Regarding Chton´s skins:
What you could do is use the "normal" quality skins for him.
Hell, thats still 1024+1024.
Difference is hard to see in-game while fighting.

But you will reduce significantly loading map time.


Now Nergal,
on with the Dissolution of Eternity skins
Due to the fact, that for Mission Pack 1 High Res skins are already available (by Fragger).

Kind Regards,
Seven

[Nergal]

@Seven: Shub has only 5 frames because it also needs alpha channels on the normal to show the blood, while Chthon is only animated.
I preferred to lower the animation quality in favour of the texture quality, because 1) not all the engines support shaders 2) you can use a single frame if you don't want it animated.

Now Nergal,
on with the Dissolution of Eternity skins
Due to the fact, that for Mission Pack 1 High Res skins are already available (by Fragger).

SoA -> 3 new skins
DoE -> 14 new skins