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Authentic Model Improvement

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  • well, Dunno about that... I'm just tweaking anms and skins... lol
    this is a rerelease of the above file to include the changes to the gun on the ogre and doe ogre skins:


    • Nice idea to have the multi-grenade ogre use his own launcher. If the anims get fixed, maybe it might be something after all.
      Authentic Models Pack
      OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
      LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


      • I gave another go ant fixing the walk cycle a bit:
        i dont think its perfect but its not doing that odd jump in the cycle now...
        the cycle loops smooth from 1-12 but the anim is 16 frames long... so in my ignorance of any other way to do it I simply duplicated frames 3, 6, 9 and 12 to fill the resultant gaps in the animation evenly.
        then in order to make it not look as juddery I altered the size, pitch, position and angle of the duplicated frames. it works. but you can see for yourself, it certainly aint 100%
        then... Im not an animator... I wish qme had some way to interpolate frames. then I could just add a new frame extrapolated from between 3/4, 6/7 , 9/10 and 12/13 accordingly... that would look better... but not my jam... the 'paine' is ok imho. not a real big difference to how it looked before in truth. just a bit smoother...

        also 'fixed' the shoulders on the doe ogre as the skin needed further altering so as to match up neatly on this model... (is that what uv mapping means ? funted if I know. I just do it till it lines up real-nice. via trial and error most of the time)

        so you prefer this over the chillo model we currently use then?
        I think its kinda crude in comparison but the chainsaw is modelled much more authenticly than on the chillo one which is perhaps a step too far to reality and away from the original quake fantasy 'asthetic' and the skin is, like a 100 times more authentic I suppose.
        I really don't know now. perhaps ive just got too used to the chillo one... the chillo one does strange stretchy thing around the neck on the death anims which is a knock against it, its skin is littered with jpeggy artifacts too, and while it does have a smoother head and nose modelled on, the ad one has the teeth modelled on to some extent (theres a dent around the mouth area anyway, ok not capnbubs level of mouth detail, but, yeah what is? lol)
        one thing I'll say for this one, the skin is really 'clean' on the model. no stretching or skewing thats obvious and the pixelslook real clear. the face in particular is well mapped. it looks great against lunarans knight in e2m2. its true it is really authentic. hell I cant decide what i prefer now...
        I think if put on the spot to decide, if the anims on the walk were done better than I can muster, I'd pick this one over chillos i suppose...
        got to simply look at it compared to the original model. old captain-cube-head. no contest really. anything is betterthan that. LOL

        also, re. the size/stature of him. I think that perhaps, like me, you've just been looking at the chillo one too long. here is a comparison shot of the ad vs. the id original:
        not much in it really...

        but then, I have in this release increased the y size from 1 to 1.1 as I too felt he was not quite wide enough...
        Last edited by osjclatchford; 02-06-2021, 04:05 AM.


        • Need to check it ingame before I can make a judgement. It looks really good from the comparison screens, I'll give it that.

          It's crazy to go through yet another ogre iteration, but it's probably the most iconic enemy of the game, so we need to get it right. Our edited Chillo model comes really close, but yeah, that weird neck stretch after death is a small minus. It's still hard to beat, though.

          Good news is we are not in a hurry. If the new ogre needs more work, we don't need to insert it in an unfinished state.
          Last edited by NightFright; 02-06-2021, 06:42 AM.
          Authentic Models Pack
          OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
          LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


          • that much is certain. time is one thing I have in abundance...
            job is gone and lack of money is stopping me from buying more 40k models to paint.
            hence all the quake-work. also been tweaking my doom mod's sprite-anims a bit too...

            at present Im still doing the 40k stuf I have left (in fact some models are drying out from a 'wash' stage as i type this) but once thats done its none for a while methinks.

            still quake is free is what I'm geting at. (well, except for the internet/phone bill and electricity) but you know what I mean, I can take my time on stuff.

            I think I'm sold on this ogre now. just need help with that walk anim and its done I'd say...

            Oh and just a mention, Ive just this minute updated the file to include the hedgib.
            the headgib has the original sock skin for the ogre (as that matches the ogre itself) and Ive made a doe skin for it too.
            funny why does the doe head skin have a ring on his nose but the monster itself doesnt? odd no?
            funny I actually had to scale it down for the sock model. for some reason the skin on sock's headgib is actually about 70% of the size of the id1 (and rogue) originals so it was a bit of a trick to scale it down without loosing pixel quality. but yeah I did it.


            • I never noticed the nose ring on the multi-grenade ogre. Gotta look at the skin, I guess.

              And sorry regarding your job loss. These are shitty times and one can be glad if they are working in a company not or less affected by the pandemic. I don't wanna know how much of the current activity in the Doom, Quake and Duke3D communities is happening due to unemployment. Personally I'd prefer that people are ok, even if it means we see them in the forums less often again.

              While it's nice that you dedicate your free time to Quake stuff, earning money is ofc more important. Hope you find something new, and soon!
              Last edited by NightFright; 02-06-2021, 08:38 AM.
              Authentic Models Pack
              OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
              LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


              • thanks NF, I really do appreciate the sentiment.

                as for the multiogre, its only the headgib that has a nosering. I've no idea why though. but if its in the original game, its in the authentic remake. no matter how odd...


                • Sorry to hear about your job loss. I don't know if it's any help, but a friend of mine buys tabletop lead armies and paints them up and sells them on eBay. I don't know if that would be way of making some dosh till something else turns up.

                  I found a discord for mappers and they have a modelling and texturing section with a few model makers in there. If anyone wants to take a look the link is in the first post here (you need a discord login):

                  I'm on my duke project for a bit but then I'll get Quaking again.


                  • Maybe it was a mistake posting a thread about this on Func_Msgboard. Some guy posted his criticism already. Some is fair, some isn't.

                    According to him, Fiend looks "droopy or stretched", the Mummy "needs more bandages", Zombie is "too defined and not fleshy enough" and the Ogre neck "seems off, too fat". Now the part I didn't agree with: He claimed the Horn of Conjuring and Empathy Shield looked exactly like the originals. This can be seen as a compliment, but here it's like there is no visible improvement. But heyyyy, he liked the Anti-Grav Belt and the Minotaur statue. It's something!

                    Well, I understand that Chillo's models are not everybody's cup of tea. We did what we could to improve them with skin edits, but if you don't like the animations or the model mesh in general, you need a new model. And we all know enemy models are nothing you just pull out of your posterior end without any effort. Especially when you are supposed to keep them as vanilla as possible.

                    But well, couldn't expect everybody to just like this unconditionally. Most of the enemy models probably would have to be remade from scratch, and even then some wouldn't raise their thumbs. Guess we'll just keep doing our thing.
                    Last edited by NightFright; 02-07-2021, 02:04 AM.
                    Authentic Models Pack
                    OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                    LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                    • With the horn, I did do a version that is a more perfectly smooth version of the horn. I thought it didn't look enough like the original. All personal taste I suppose.


                      • No way you can make it look "right" for everyone. I admit that our goal to keep things looking the way they did originally comes with certain visual limitations. Still, if you want more, it's a different project. The outline here is to upgrade the poly count and add a bit more detail here or there without making it look out of place. Some people don't seem to get that.

                        I kind of agree that our current Ogre is a bit too smooth in its movements. It could have "rougher" animations and shapes. Osj's latest efforts are promising regarding that. If we get all necessary animations accurate, I have no issues with replacing the Chillo edit.
                        Last edited by NightFright; 02-07-2021, 02:17 AM.
                        Authentic Models Pack
                        OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                        LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                        • @NF I did see that post and immediately dismissed it. if I listened to every nay-sayer I'd never have any projects left. My Major-Crisis moddb feed gets comments like that +/- every day telling me "this is wrong" or "this should be this". Im like, WTF? who are they to tell me what should or should not be in a mod I designed? I just delete the more demanding or offensive ones these days. but sometimes It gets my back up and I have to bite and say something.

                          I end up deleting those replies a few days later too...

                          still I suppose this is different. its an umbrella-project with a specific goal.
                          A goal that is, sadly, +/- impossible to achieve if we stop to try and please all.
                          We are all aware that Our nostalgia sometimes get the better of us and we struggle to see the good from the bad on things sometimes. But we are heavily invested and ingrossed within the project itself. so thats expected and vital to achieve what we strive for. you have to be ruthless sometimes and get rid of things that you've grown to love if a 'truer' or 'more authentic' version presents itself.

                          (the ogre is indeed a perfect example of this. Ive done A LOT to the chillo one and would be lying if I didnt say that I'd be sad to see it go to waste, but the sock model I've currently been dicking about with is indeed it's superior as far as faithfull autenticity is concerned. so its a natural successor)

                          others seem to be less aware of this aspect of themselves, or might have too much arrogance to realise that perhaps their way is not the only way.
                          differing opinions are fine and all and can be helpfull, but thats just a laundry list of complaints. I'd be tempted to say, fine what have you done to make it better then? but I'm a firey-tempered glass-cannon when it comes to opinions...
                          easy to sit on the fence and/or back-seat-drive but we can only do the best we can with the resources to hand...
                          yeah I'm sure a lot of the stuff we've done could be better but its easy to pull it apart creatively when its not you doing all the damn work...

                          yes, I'm overly passionate and easily riled by these things, I probably shouldn't bite but I have too much pride in my work not to.
                          Also Ive reached an age where, what I like I really enjoy and what I dislike I simply cannont abide... you know what I mean?
                          Perhaps is the stress of unemployement, flooding house, sick/elderly family members, and the obvious irritation that comes from a perpetual threat of death on my belly from lung failure due to catching covid19. (which Ive successfully managed to avoid so-far). Ok, we ALL have that last one but I think that what I'm saying is that, in general, my punk-patience has run well and truly dry...

                          and the comments about the horn? thats just fucking rediculous... you've only to look at all three of them side by side and the choice is obvious.
                          its my opinion that some of these people just don't understand the spirit of the project and care even less.
                          Its your project, I'll follow your lead. I'll do my best to fullfill whats needed for the project. if I create something that I think is great, but you not so. yeah, I'll try to argue my case, as you know, but if it ends up a dead end or a solid NO. then fine I'll concede the point.
                          If I think something is better than something else thats up to me and I can use whatever I like in my quake-setup. same for the others out there.
                          This is not a public-service. it a personal collection of models/skins that you are kind enough to compile and share. if people want it they can have it. if they don't. so what? not all opinions are gold. mine's certainly somewhat tarnished! LOL
                          so as far as I'm concerned if any of them have anything to say about this Ive said here, now is a perfect time for them to keep it to themselves...

                          again, thanks for the sentiments. In truth I've tried army-painter things over the years to no avial I'm afraid.
                          Its a surprisingly saturated market and most 'customers' expect everything for tuppence-hapeney and want golden demon standard. and they want it yesterday.

                          selling stuff allready done? HA! ive had stuff sit on ebay for years at fair prices and it never shifts... they all want summit for nuffin...
                          so yeah I've given up on that avenue I'm afraid... but thanks for thinking of me...
                          Last edited by osjclatchford; 02-07-2021, 02:45 AM. Reason: ammended this rant-essay to include mention of the new ogre...


                          • I finally had time to take some look at the edited AD ogre in q1mv. My two cents:

                            - "Walk", "painb" and "paine" animations look weird still. Choppy and incomplete, I guess.
                            - Death animation makes the ogre drop its weapon. I guess we can keep it like that, even though it is a deviation.
                            - Dunno what "bdeath" and "pull" animations are supposed to do - they are not used, probably.
                            - It would be interesting to see 2x skin upscales on this model.

                            Besides that, this could indeed become the final version of the ogre after all.
                            Authentic Models Pack
                            OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                            LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                            • - yes the pain and walk defininately need fixing. ive gone as far as I can with these. need third party help now I'm afraid. hopefully that is not a pipedream

                              - the death weapon drop I actually really like. I mean capnbubs' grun drops his gun now doesnt he? As you say, acceptable deviation...

                              - bdeath and pull... were in the originalid one so lef those as is. the pull anim was a leftover that id never used and bdeath is the flop forward death. ogres have always had two deaths to my knowledge...

                              - as for skin upscaling? I personally dont see the point. its on par with luneran's knight atm and I fear an upscale would only make it look less faithfull and start looking like some of the chillo stuff where it starts deviating too much... Also I think you'd need to completely remap the skin to the model for the upscaled skin which is not possible in qme. I tried that once and it just shrunk th eskin back down on its own, with ugly results, LOL
                              might have too look into that and get back to you.

                              but yeah, unless some nice quake-samaritan comes to our rescue regarding the anims we might be SOL on this one and have to keep using the chillo one a while longer than we'd like...
                              oh and "final ogre" Lols my final work to chillo's was supposed to be that! this is grown on me much though, the saw, the face, the skin itself, its all so faithfull. actually really much more similar to capnbubs one than the chillo model... also with the modelled dent-for-an-open-mouth, the model reminds me of that even more... its a subtle thing but it makes a difference...

                              anyway this:
                              ogryn comparisons.jpg
                              might be of interest...

                              something to show the nay-sayers anyhow...
                              Last edited by osjclatchford; 02-07-2021, 03:27 AM. Reason: added the comparison pic of all the best authentic ogres...


                              • Yeah, Chillo ogre is kinda doing its own thing. The Sock model is the next best thing, I guess. The only reason why I am not talking about the capnbubs ogre is because we can't get it...

                                We might have to work on the head shape, though. Sock mdl looks like it is wearing a helmet. Which, if you look at the AD skin, can actually be the case.
                                Authentic Models Pack
                                OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                                LIT/VIS files for Quake addons