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Authentic Model Improvement

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  • well, I'd say definately do the fish. its a big improvement in anims and mouth detail.

    as the multi-eye guy is not needed that link above is the tarbaby and hellspawn done then. I'm not using it but thers no reason not to include it if you think it worthy.

    the enhanced chthon indeed is not a massive improvement over the chillo one but it has its merits.
    I'm stull using the chillo chthon as I love the alterations it has. however they do technically make it differ a lot from the original where as the 'enhanced' chthon has all the new details, teeth, nicer horns and generally better model/poly quality that chillos does, whilst being much closer to the id1 original in form. so yeah. I leave that to you.

    re. the quality drop.
    I've had a damn good look at the models before/after and it seems that it is just the weapons that loose their 'edge' in the conversion.

    so no biggie for us as we're happy with our weapons already...

    Last edited by osjclatchford; 08-23-2021, 11:55 AM.


    • BTW, was the following fix applied to the new RL? Or is it not relevant outside of Kex?
      Also, the rocket launcher has a frame of interpolated muzzleflash where you can see it moving through the gun to behind the camera. This is even visible in the release trailer. This can be fixed by hiding the muzzleflash model inside the gun instead of behind the camera as with the classic quake models.
      (From Doomworld forums)
      Authentic Models Pack
      OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
      LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


      • As far a know that still happens. But it's not overly as obvious in the converted model for some reason...

        perhaps the smoothness of the md5 model animations keeps it in view for longer than the converted mdl does.
        its only there for a split second as far as I can see in noesis, its not there in qme on the mdl conversion and I've not really noticed it in play tbh...
        perhaps kex has interpolation thats too smooth..?

        oh, wait,there it is:

        the result of firing the rocket launcher and pressing f12 about a gazillion times trying to get it!

        hmm, dont know how to fix that. not my jam...
        conversions and skins, no problem, but you know my position on modelling...
        sev to the rescue perhaps...

        I doesnt bother me to be honest as it kinda looks like the flash is coming out the back of the 'vents' which is kinda cool in its way.
        whats a mod without a error here or there anyway, got to leave one in for good luck eh?
        Last edited by osjclatchford; 08-24-2021, 03:28 AM.


        • The effect might even be intended like that and is just perceived as a bug by players. If you move this muzzleflash further to the front, it won't look as if it's coming out of the side muzzles and more, and if you move it back, it's covering all muzzles. This is probably a compromise and will look just fine as long you don't take screenshots like yours.

          I have uploaded all new models on Github (not final yet, but it's what we have for now). Replacements now include:
          - ID1: Chthon (w/ fullbright pixels), Death Knight, Enforcer, Fiend, Ogre, Rocket Launcher, Rotfish, Scrag, Spawn (new), Vore, Zombie
          - ROG: Hellspawn, Multi-Grenade Ogre, Multi-Rocket Launcher

          Regarding headgibs, I mostly went with your new ones except for the Fiend (slightly rescaled version of our existing replacement from Chillo) and Scrag (uses existing replacement by TM which fits just fine). I think that should be it, then. We have reached the point where I can't say any longer that there's ANY model still in the pack I am not satisfied with (even the mission pack stuff that we couldn't update to be based on Quake EX models)! Maybe someone can close the headgib bottoms (h_hellkn, h_mega, h_shal, h_zombie) still, but right now that's secondary.
          Last edited by NightFright; 08-24-2021, 06:27 AM.
          Authentic Models Pack
          OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
          LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


          • yeah, the chillo/teamonster head for the scrag is fine. I just dont like it for some reason I cant put my finger on. same as i feel about the tarbaby... just my idiosyncracies i suppose. we all have our tastes and all that...

            as for the h_demon
            if you're going to use that chillo model I'd suggest using this skin i just made:

            adapted with parts of the id1 skin for visual consistancy, and the gore effect and skin texture has been 'dumbed down' to match the classic skins of the other models we use...

            you can get that from this file here:
            its based on your rescaled one from github.
            (this also includes a version of the demon with glowy eyes like bloodshot's one. but thats a different story)

            this gib is indeed a nicer/smoother model but much better skin match now, no?


            • True! Will only use the headgib, though. There were already enough controverse discussions about "eyes must glow" vs "glowing eyes are a blasphemy"...

              In theory, that RL fix isn't that hard. You just need to hide or even better delete the muzzleflash spheres behind the RL. I just haven't figured out to do it properly yet in QuArK. Hiding the flashes inside the gun works, but you would always see some leftovers on both sides. Deletion would be better, but it doesn't seem to be possible. Is there a better tool for it?

              Btw, mh claims the converted Ogre has "very extreme vertex wobble" going on. Was this checked or are the conversions maybe not so good after all? Please don't tell me I have to revert everything! Lol...
              Last edited by NightFright; 08-24-2021, 10:37 AM.
              Authentic Models Pack
              OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
              LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


              • Yeah the link is to a file that's on another thread of mine. Had no illusions you'd use the glow eyes but I knew you'd like the headgib skin.
                didn't think it was worth posting the head separately as I was posting the other skin/model in the other thread. So I figured, two birds, one stone...

                As for the rl.
                Deleting that bit might remove the flash entirely. Will get back to you on that soon. After I've had a tinker...

                As for the ogre. That's a croc o shit.
                There's nout wrong with that model. If they want to see real vertex wobble just show them that converted AD sock one from quake1.5 I was using, then they can talk to me about vertex wobble... There's always one isn't there...
                One that has to be a pedantic cowson.
                What are they doing that's any better than our work, eh?

                Sorry to snap off there, but it grinds my gears...

                I Say Worry ye not. The chillo one is more wobbly than the current capnbubs one. Hell even the soldier and dog mdls wobble to some extent. That's mdl format in a nutshell... They want it better, go play it with md5s in kex and fuck off and leave us alone...
                Is he even viewing it in quakespasm or similar engine? No respect for the craft...

                Sigh... No matter how hard you work to do something someone has to shit on it...

                Still I'm happy with what were achieving and you seem to be too, that's what really matters...
                Last edited by osjclatchford; 08-24-2021, 05:00 PM.


                • I mean, even if there WAS any wobble, you wouldn't notice it since most of the time, the monsters are running around and you don't want to look at them closely before they are dead. Anyway, I used notarget and floated around these things quite excessively in the last days, can't say I have seen any visual glitch there, at least not in the idle frames. About attack frames I can't say much since I didn't look.

                  I have the suspicion mh actually used latest official revision instead of the dev snapshot. Our old Ogre had indeed some wobble. Its neck was a weird mess. Ah fuggit, sometimes I think some folks out there are looking so hard for glitches until they believe they can see some. Maybe it's their vision that's wobbly?

                  Oh btw, be sure to check the new readme on Github. I have reworked the credits a bit. There is a "Special Thanks" section there now...
                  Last edited by NightFright; 08-24-2021, 11:30 AM.
                  Authentic Models Pack
                  OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                  LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                  • Lols. It's just pinicity knobbery I say.
                    could be he's looking at the wrong model or if he's loaded the mdl in kex that might be it? I dunno and you know what.,I don't know why I'm wasting my time musing on it.
                    Tell you what.
                    Get him to work to do stuff for the mod.
                    Fix those empty vertices on the headgibs or make the doe skins for the mummy or minotaur? Can't do it?
                    Then shut up and go away... Quick to criticize, slow to act...
                    Yes that's unreasonable and somewhat unfair.
                    But all I see these days is a ​​​​​bunch of whining with no action to back it up.
                    At least we try to do better...

                    critisism is one thing, but come on!

                    got so paranoid I had to go and have a look at it myself again.
                    its the slightest most unnoticable wobble thats even less than the usual par-for-the-course you get when using mid-poly mdls...
                    as I say, even capnbubs soldier and dog models do it too...
                    it seems to me this guy has got too used to the md5's and/or high-res content that he's forgotton what the quake-engine standard is these days.
                    alright the original id1 models have no wobble whatsoever, but hell they are the official game products and have half if not less the bloody polies to worry about. The ogre's and knight's heads are just cubes for christs sake!
                    if the slightests vertex wibble is the price for the capnbubs ogre I pay it gladly...
                    lucky we've got it at all...
                    Last edited by osjclatchford; 08-24-2021, 11:50 AM.


                    • You should see how some guys over at Doomworld act because Nightdive hasn't even started fixing any bugs yet because changes would have to be consistent throughout all port releases, on PC and consoles. Boo-hoo, those bad consoles ruin the fun for us nice PC gamers. FFS, cry me a river. This shiat just got released a few days ago.

                      In the end, Kex is mostly worth it for the remastered models and that new episode which I haven't even touched yet. SoA and DoE I won't replay with this port before they added the missing models, if they ever do. They way they released these is an inconsistent mess. The old models stick out really badly.

                      Btw: Might need that Hellspawn skin with eyes after all. Looks like this is used for duplicates (to be more precise: the original has eyes, duplicates don't). I always kill these bastards before they can do anything, so I couldn't tell before checking the wiki.
                      Last edited by NightFright; 08-24-2021, 12:50 PM.
                      Authentic Models Pack
                      OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                      LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                      • Will do asap and get back to you...

                        oh. I can't do the thing on the rl. Can only delete bits from the whole model. Not just one frame... Nevermind...


                        • Yeah, I tried the same in QuArK. But what works is to make the muzzleflashes behind the RL really small, so when they "travel" through the model during interpolation, you won't see them. I guess that's the way to go.
                          Authentic Models Pack
                          OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                          LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                          • heres the tarbaby v2: (same file as before, just updated)

                            oh and it seems that the folks on func_msgboard are looking at the chillo ogre with my skin from the current official pack... the dolts...
                            one put a video on to show how "bad" the vertex wobble is. to be honest I dont see what all the fuss is. t'aint that bad at all...
                            worse than the new capnbubs/'enhanced' one we're using, true, but still... had no complaints till now...
                            finicity little punks says I...

                            also re github readme. got to say one look at github and I am just lost...
                            I cant seem to navigate, work out what the hell I'm looking at or download anything...
                            how the fuck does it even work, man?

                            Last edited by osjclatchford; 08-24-2021, 03:37 PM.


                            • Will try the Hellspawn tomorrow. Let's see if I get it to duplicate without kicking the bucket. Well, I'm going to cheat anyway, so...

                              But yeah, Github can be a bitch to navigate. In "Releases" on the right side, you'll find official builds. Not necessarily the latest stuff! To get that, you must click on the green button labelled "Code", then choose "Download Zip". I have explained it to the Func guys as well now. Maybe their second verdict will be more lenient. Not that we have to give a rat's a$$ about it, you know, but well.

                              Shocking to me is just that nobody recognized this was not the same stuff as presented in Quake Kex, but hey... not judging.
                              Last edited by NightFright; 08-24-2021, 04:10 PM.
                              Authentic Models Pack
                              OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                              LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                              • just read the readme.

                                thanks for that!

                                meanwhile here:
                                is a better model for h_mega.

                                I merged the neck/gore of the original with the new head. (that was a lot trickier than I made that sound, believe me.)

                                It was the worst of my 'cut-off-of-neck' headgib models and I wanted to do better...
                                Last edited by osjclatchford; 08-24-2021, 05:46 PM.