That recent terrorist attack on that Club......

[wicked_lord]

These attacks shouldn't be happening period. People have their opinions about how these things could be stopped, but it all boils down to our leaders of this Wonderful country have gotten soft. Its as simple as that. These Islamic terrorists only know one thing and that is war. War is going to be the only way to stop the extremists period. The day that attack happened our borders should of been instantly closed. Imagine honestly how many sleepers that walk amongst us. It is sickening.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[JeSuS]

These attacks shouldn't be happening period. People have their opinions about how these things could be stopped, but it all boils down to our leaders of this Wonderful country have gotten soft. Its as simple as that. These Islamic terrorists only know one thing and that is war. War is going to be the only way to stop the extremists period. The day that attack happened our borders should of been instantly closed. Imagine honestly how many sleepers that walk amongst us. It is sickening.

[Dutch]

[O.T] my english is very bad, but I am learning a lot reading specially this thread (technical threads are not so rich in language!)
I find in this thread the necessary touch of colloquial and formal language , thanks guys !

Haha hey no problem! I'm glad all this arguing has paid off somehow

[nahuel]

[O.T] my english is very bad, but I am learning a lot reading specially this thread (technical threads are not so rich in language!)
I find in this thread the necessary touch of colloquial and formal language , thanks guys !

[Mindf!3ldzX]

..
I'm glad at least Davers shares my principalism on some of the same issues I pointed out a few posts back.
And finally, looks like even Mindz is trying to be supportive of me on the 'gender' thing, and while I haven't entirely forgotten how that came up, it seems a little weird my gender issues would come up in what is otherwise an entirely politcal thread about Terrorism-related issues (so sorry about that, I guess).

I found it lacking in taste to put it nicely.... don't be sorry. If anyone should apologize it would be me, for even creating this post...

I would look at the Pangolin. A mammal with scales. If that's possible, why is it impossible for a human being to be born with a mismatch of physical components compared to the mind they was born with?

[MadGypsy]

You make some valid points but fail to see an even bigger point you are making.

1) Yes, these people were robbed of their haven and you better believe the shooter knew this would be a soft target. It's the entire point that they feel so safe as to not have any form of protection handy that they got shot up in the first place.

2) If it could be assumed that tons of people are armed everywhere you go, nobody with half a brain would walk into anywhere shooting in the first place. A guns most powerful "bullet" is simply the fact that I might have one... that everybody might have one. There is an old saying - An armed society is a polite society.

@transgender

Oh I know they are real and that they exist. I'd also be willing to bet my right nut that if you were born that way you can thank the toxic stew your parents wore and ingested on a daily basis, as well as whatever shots they took like good sheep. The fact that you think having a penis and wanting to be a girl is not completely upside-down is scary. You are willing to try and accept it as if it was natural for you to be this way but, something very unnatural happened which made you this way. You want me to accept that "it's just the way it is" that you have rendered your procreation organ inconsequential. There is no surgery that can ever complete you as a woman... only make you look and semi function as one. Science cannot "fix" you. I like you H1CC, I really do but, being one gender trapped in another genders body is an abomination. It is entirely against the laws of nature. I'm not trying to put you down. I know you didn't go out of your way to be as you are or anything. Chances are you were actually robbed of normality. To be quite clear though, I don't give a shit about any of this. These are YOUR problems/conditions. If you want 3 dicks and to be referred to as "shem", my world is affected not-at-all and I'll even call you "shem" for as long as that's what you think you are.

@As far as I can tell about ya now

If just now you think you finally "got it", then you still don't "got it". I don't know how to be more clear and "flat out" than I have been for the last 5 years here. I came here as me... I've been the hell out of me... and I'm still me. I have zero filter, next to zero apologies and about zero patience. I do not pretend I believe/think things for acceptance. I actually hate people that do that. The only thing that has truly changed about me in 5 years is that I know a hell of a lot more programming languages and, I used to not give A fuck but now I don't give 2 fucks.

The best part is, there is no guesswork. If I hated your guts and thought you should be burned at the stake... I would totally tell you. Just like I said it here at least twice that I think you're super duper. We might not always agree on things but you'll never have to guess if we do

[H1CC]

So, to avoid potential danger, I will not be walking through a crowd of people proudly displaying middle eastern culture, nor will I be walking through a herd of moose, because the best way to avoid danger is by staying away from potentially dangerous things. I can do that without hating or even disliking middle easterns or moose.

..
I agree with you on this part, actually.
I'm just grasping at straws to discern 'cautious racial avoidance' from actual bigotry, because I don't know what it's like to have either.


I've never really felt afraid of someone for the color of their skin etc. an' I've had unruly black kids 'menace' me in a school program for high-school dropouts (even though I graduated years earlier) as well as white kids who take knives to school, I'm guessing because they think being armed on a school campus is 'cool' (which I guess it is), and the guy who gave me rides to and from campus last semeseter is a good friend of mine, tall buff black guy, and also a devout christian-- and the most uncomfortable I ever got around him was when he talked to me, seriously, about his religious philosophy.
If a Muslim tries to impress their religious philosophy on me as much as he had back then I don't know enough to know whether I would be more uncomfortable with a Muslim doing it than a Christian.

Unless I am seriously forgetting something I have never done anything to H1CC. Might even be one of the few people that has said something I didn't like and I responded with a level head to. If no matter how cool, calm and collected I might be to someone they are still going to be on guard, what's the point of being C,C&C?

..
Actually, no, you didn't do or say anything to me to hurt me or otherwise seriously offend me.
I'm simply offended by who you are, not anything that you've done-- someone who doesn't believe 'transgendered' is even real, and thinks transgender people simply don't exist.

No one will ever convince me that it is perfectly normal to be a boy that thinks he is a girl.

..
Quite.
As far as I can tell about ya now, you can never understand what it's like to be 'born different', you know, you're this this and this but were born anatomically and physiologically with that that and that, virtually everyone treats you as that that and that, and then when you finally figure out you're this this and this now you have to try to explain it to everyone else who sees you as that t hat and that, and likely after having orignally been raised to believe you were that that and that, even if you knew you were this this and this in your heart (or wherever 'identity' comes from).


MadGypsy, if you must know, I haven't figured out my gender entirely yet either.
But I know I'm not just plain cis-male, and for the record, 'genderfluid' doesn't mean you're choosing to be whatever gender you want at different times, because again, it's not a 'choice'.


Also, I'm totally derailing the thread with the gender identity thing again aren't I? God dammit. What a way to spend my 100th post on these forums.
Where was I? Oh yeah. Dutch and Davers' and Madgypsy's points about whether you can realistiically 'save lives' from a club shooter.


I don't think more people carrying concealed weapons is the solution, and even if that would would work to thwart a mass shooter in the event that he starts to do mass-shooting, it's missing the point.
No one should have to carry a weapon on them at all times just to feel safe from the possibility of someone else coming in with a gun. Especially not at a Gay Nightclub hosting a 'latino night'. That sounds like a pretty cool place, if you're, you know, part of that kind of a community, and I imagine for people like that it's somewhere they find sanctuary and a safe haven from both everyday hassles and the ocassional outsiders' intolerances. I'm reminded of the other 'terrorist' who shot up the Black Church speciifcally because it was Blacks and that they were in a church-- because that was one of the few places they had to go where they could feel safe and welcomed, and be a part of their own community. I don't care what the Orlando shooter's motive was, when you come in and shoot & kill or injure 100+ people you're not just murdering people, you're robbing people of one of few places they could go to really live, again, a haven from daily stresses (it probably felt like family to them, havin' that place they could all hang out and be cool together), and a sub-community just for them. Um, I'm being redundant again. But my point is that the real wrongdoing is what you're taking from being able to be around, not the number of people you kill (or horribly wound, or take from families, or scar for life...). It defeats the purpose of even having that if you have to carry a gun on you in there. And, besides, in the panic & confusion of a shooting in-progress there's no guarantee that some vigilantee who just so happened to be 'carrying' is gonna shoot straight and be able to think calmly and clearly enough to take out the shooter, just the shooter, and take them out all the way, without futher complications, and without ruining the night for everyone else at best and possibly being mistaken as a shooter themself at worst. There's no winning in a situation like that. It makes far more sense just to try to prevent mass shootings before they happen, and that doesn't come from 'gun control' or from gun carry. Seriously. Both sides of the 'gun control' debate are in the wrong as to whether their side can help stop mass shootings.


Davers, didn't I just make the same comparison between the 'watch lists' and WWII's Japanese Internment Camps you're making now?
'cept yours was shorter and included more specific examples and sources. God dammit. I think I might know what my problem is...


I'm glad at least Davers shares my principalism on some of the same issues I pointed out a few posts back.
And finally, looks like even Mindz is trying to be supportive of me on the 'gender' thing, and while I haven't entirely forgotten how that came up, it seems a little weird my gender issues would come up in what is otherwise an entirely politcal thread about Terrorism-related issues (so sorry about that, I guess).

[MadGypsy]

You know what's crazy? 50 summin people died trying to run away. How many would have died if 50 summin people charged the gunman? There is no way to know but I bet about 10 or 15 would have died before 35 people beat this guys brain in.

@mindz ~ harsh

Ya know man, I can't go around apologizing for everything I think/believe any more than I can pretend I don't think/believe it. The world is not roses and sunshine. I GUARANTEE you other people here totally agree with me they are just too polite to say anything. I'm not polite. If I went around this world holding everything in due to politeness or political correctness I'd be the next person you see on the news mowing down crowds of people. However, harsh or not, the point wasn't to be harsh. The point was "Why are you defensive around me when I've never done this..." (so to speak)

Unless I am seriously forgetting something I have never done anything to H1CC. Might even be one of the few people that has said something I didn't like and I responded with a level head to. If no matter how cool, calm and collected I might be to someone they are still going to be on guard, what's the point of being C,C&C? I gave H1CC what she has been waiting for. For the record, I still couldn't give 2 fucks if H1CC identified as a Non Trinitary Agendered ManBearPig from Asgard. Whatever she has going on with herself she seems like "cool people".

[Dutch]

@davers

No, it wouldn't be a mess, because the bad guy would be dead and all reaponsible gun owners would be re-holstered by the time the cops showed up.

You know what is a mess, though? 50 people mercilessly slaughtered as they ran around trying to flee for their lives with no means of saving themselves. We just saw the result of no one but the bad guy having a firearm. The result was 50 dead people.

You are totally correct about the watchlists, however.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I apologize for making this thread.

[Dilligaf]

Throwing people in prison for being on the watch list?
Really? There are a lot of people on watch list that shouldn't be on the list.

Little children that are 6 years and younger are on the list.
Canadian and American governments. My own Canadian government
has admitted to the mistake (a lot of red tape to correct this)

So any innocent person accidentally on this so called list should be thrown
in jail? You should study history more.

Go onto wikipedia, and search for japanese internment camps....
Yes Canada and the U.S. did this, which was wrong btw.

And so you will learn, The Canadian government shut down all Japanese-language newspapers, took possession of businesses and fishing boats, and effectively sold them. In order to fund the internment itself, vehicles, houses and personal belongings were also sold.

So basicly innocent people should be thrown in jail based on their
color of skin. Wow.. Such a primitive thought.

I am glad i live in Canada today, most people here don't share these crude ideas.

These people have to be vetted and that's not getting done. You're entitled to your opinion as am I. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Davers]

No not all Iranians, Syrians, and former U.A.E. residents, or anyone else from the Middle East for that matter... Just the Muslims. They are unwilling, or unable to police their own, so someone is going to have to do it for them! These people don't want to live in a civil society, live and let live. It's their way or the highway... I call BS on that!!

Do research... Look at what the Imams are teaching in their Mosques. These people have a warped view of the world around them. They treat women like dogs. They blindfold LGBTQ and throw them off seven story roofs. Cut peoples heads off or put them in cages and burn them alive! Enough is enough! Obama's thing of "well if we just LOVE them enough and kiss their ass they'll like us and leave us alone" and being so over the damn top politically correct crap isn't working.
No more "gun free zones". You don't see many Bass Pro Shops getting shot up! Take a look around, it's getting worse, much worse. I say screw em'... one of em' better not flinch the wrong way around me. I'm sick of their shit! I carry every time I leave the house now... and will not hesitate to protect my family or those around me if that's what it comes to...

Timothy Mcveigh wasn't a muslim.
You are always going to have terrorism on some level or another.
Btw, wasn't Timmy a white American citizen ? hmm

[Davers]

All i'm gonna say, is if at least a few of those people in the nightclub had been legally armed, this entire scenario may have panned out drastically different.

Up here in Idaho, if some scumbag starts popping shots in a public setting, I guarantee you a few dozen other people are clearing leather to return fire to the son of a bitch.

Probably why there are very few shootings in these parts...bad guys are looking to dominate other people, not to get in a gun fight.

Then when the cops do show up (maybe already there off duty)
Everyone gets shot, because the police don't know who's who..
What a mess that would be.

[Davers]

In an interview earlier today Newt Gingrich said we need to throw these "people" that are on these terrorist watch lists in jail now! Not waiting until they kill 50+ innocent people.
"Watching" does no good at all.
This is a war.
Look back in your American history... It's been done before... We have to protect our citizenry!

I'm for that procedure!!

Throwing people in prison for being on the watch list?
Really? There are a lot of people on watch list that shouldn't be on the list.

Little children that are 6 years and younger are on the list.
Canadian and American governments. My own Canadian government
has admitted to the mistake (a lot of red tape to correct this)

So any innocent person accidentally on this so called list should be thrown
in jail? You should study history more.

Go onto wikipedia, and search for japanese internment camps....
Yes Canada and the U.S. did this, which was wrong btw.

And so you will learn, The Canadian government shut down all Japanese-language newspapers, took possession of businesses and fishing boats, and effectively sold them. In order to fund the internment itself, vehicles, houses and personal belongings were also sold.

So basicly innocent people should be thrown in jail based on their
color of skin. Wow.. Such a primitive thought.

I am glad i live in Canada today, most people here don't share these crude ideas.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

-snip-

Damn dude, comin off harsh like a gravity bong hit aren't we?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDwt_qNwXQo[/ame]