Another thread about aliens

[Phenom]

So most of you may know I ware a tinfoil Fedora because crazy doesn't have to be tacky, and I have this video I've come across before but recently found even more footage on this guy's supposed alien abduction attempt (and attack?).

While I'm not 100% sold on the idea that this guy's video's aren't fake he seems to have moments where you can hear and almost feel the fear in his voice while other times it seems like he's forcing himself to act this way? Perhaps it's his accent that gives me the thought he's forcing his emotions...

But

While it's not impossible that this is all staged with the help of others and talent in computer graphics and or practical effects I can't help but always feel there's a sense of "oh sh!t not again" coming from this guy as if he's actually experiencing these horrific events.

There are points in his videos where it's easy to say "faaaake" but there's also points where he seems genuine and scared.

Me personally, even though I'm 6'' and have the physique to be a mean linebacker I'd probably lose my composure when met with something like this in my back yard.

I can't be completely sure, what do you think?

*Note
These are not my recorded videos, they're multiple videos from the same source put into one full video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWp7n-ynFg

[Sgt-PieFace]

As much as I wish it was real, I believe this video is fake. It was allegedly filmed around 2011, so personal video recording technology was relatively decent at the time. That makes me wonder why this was shot in low quality blurry shaky alien sighting cam?

If we ignore that we have to consider that if aliens really had wanted to capture this guy, they would have. If they have the technology to travel a LONG ass way to get to earth, land without being noticed, and find a way to survive on our planet in our atmosphere, and live among us without being detected, I'm sure they have a way of capturing people that's better than setting a house and some grass on fire.

Sadly, as time goes on, video evidence is becoming a less viable source of evidence for proof of anything, with advancements in digital editing and CGI. There will come a time when a video like this could be 100% fake.


So with all that being said, what do I think of aliens (not that you asked)?

Do aliens exist? Yes, its a mathematical impossibility for them not to what with the universe being infinite. Infinity is a strange thing though, and it means that although aliens MUST exist, it also means that there could be infinite space between us and them, rendering it impossible for us to contact them.

If we get lucky and aliens are close enough for potential contact, then there are a few scenarios. First of we need to consider our relative advancement as a species compared to the aliens. In the movies and most stories, we are the inferior beings, and are visited by an advanced intelligence. Its true that we have a long way to go, what with all the fighting amongst ourselves and all the other problems we have, but that could also be the same for the aliens. If the aliens are not as advanced as a society or technologically, then by the time they're ready to visit us, we may very well be extinct, or may have buggered off to another part of the universe.

So what would happen if aliens landed tomorrow? Well its not very likely that they would be hostile. If they are advanced enough to travel to earth from where ever they came from, then I doubt they have any need for earth and its resources (including us). So how do we communicate? Well I hope you've seen the movie Contact, and if you haven't stop reading right now, watch it, and come back. Aliens would most likely communicate in a way similar to that movie; through math. Its supposed to be the universal language, and on the most basic fundamental level, it is essentially the sane throughout the universe (I hope).

What if they are extra dimensional beings (4D, 5D, etc.)? We're boned!

Thoughts anyone?

[Baker]

If we ignore that we have to consider that if aliens really had wanted to capture this guy, they would have.

Humans would have zero chance against intelligent aliens. The horrorish movie Dark Skies (2013) did a great job portraying that, while keeping the movie interesting.

Do aliens exist? Yes, its a mathematical impossibility for them not to what with the universe being infinite. Infinity is a strange thing though, and it means that although aliens MUST exist, it also means that there could be infinite space between us and them, rendering it impossible for us to contact them.

This contains major mistakes.

And is a good example of why common sense and good science and good statistics don't mix.

If there are 10-15 statistically unlikely things that make the Earth unique with a fair number of zeros in each probability, the odds of an Earth-like planet could easily become a number with hundreds of zeros like 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Which is more stars in the observable universe which is only 10^80 stars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis - The book the Rare Earth Hypothesis explains many of these in detail (I've heard).

Discoveries like the one from 2 months ago that Venus has powerful ion winds that ejects water and oxygen and blasts it into outer space --- is an example of some of the disturbing discoveries that has been made.

?Electric Wind? Strips Earth-like Planets of Oceans, Atmospheres | NASA

So much for terraforming Venus The water is gone and you'd have to fight against the sun to even try it.

And keep in mind that our Moon is huge and is theorized to have been created by primordial collision between 2 bodies billions of years ago. Geographic and dating analysis make this look like the case, and if true the Earth started off as a very unusual planet.

(I'm not arguing that Earth-like planets are rare, but there is evidence that suggests that it may be possible that planets like the Earth are rare. It can't just be dismissed, there are things about the Earth that are very unusual.)

[Dutch]

Sentient life in other parts of the universe would be driven by the same survival instincts all living beings in earth share: air, land, water, food. Animals kill each other of the same species, and especially those of other species, to satisfy the needs for these resources. Humans aren't excluded. Europeans traveled to the Americas and took these resources by force from the native peoples. Aliens traveling to earth would almost be guaranteed to act the same way. It wouldn't even be a matter of right or wrong, just a natural conflict for natural resources. And seeing as they would have the technological advantage (just as European settlers did over the natives), humans would get their collective asses kicked. This is the biggest reason I don't buy into alien conspiracies. If they were here, it would be a shock and awe tactic: show up by force, guns blazing, kicking in doors, and taking everything they need. Playing the stealth game achieves nothing, and they don't need to study us on earth: everything about humanity gets broadcasted into every corner of local space anyway.

As for the probability of aliens existing...that's all it is. Probability, which basically amounts to speculation. Until anyone can prove otherwise, it doesn't matter other than to satisfy curiosity.

But this does bring up another question: are we talking sentient alien life, or just off-world life in general? I honestly wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they find bacteria (or at least fossilized remains) on mars.

[Phenom]

Sentient life in other parts of the universe would be driven by the same survival instincts all living beings in earth share: air, land, water, food. Animals kill each other of the same species, and especially those of other species, to satisfy the needs for these resources. Humans aren't excluded. Europeans traveled to the Americas and took these resources by force from the native peoples. Aliens traveling to earth would almost be guaranteed to act the same way. It wouldn't even be a matter of right or wrong, just a natural conflict for natural resources. And seeing as they would have the technological advantage (just as European settlers did over the natives), humans would get their collective asses kicked. This is the biggest reason I don't buy into alien conspiracies. If they were here, it would be a shock and awe tactic: show up by force, guns blazing, kicking in doors, and taking everything they need. Playing the stealth game achieves nothing, and they don't need to study us on earth: everything about humanity gets broadcasted into every corner of local space anyway.

As for the probability of aliens existing...that's all it is. Probability, which basically amounts to speculation. Until anyone can prove otherwise, it doesn't matter other than to satisfy curiosity.

But this does bring up another question: are we talking sentient alien life, or just off-world life in general? I honestly wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they find bacteria (or at least fossilized remains) on mars.

That's interesting stuff but I think you'd have to say that the rest of the planets/beings in the universe is like Earth instead of saying Earth has similarities to other planets in the universe.

We're not the only living things in the universe, that's a highly illogical statement to make but to say Aliens are like cowboys/European migrates that liken Columbus from 1492 would since you would have to also say alien's followed in our foot steps and there is no other course of evolution other then what Earth defines.

Look at the diplomacy us advanced Earthians have now compared to then, sure we still have war and things like that but there's an awakening happening in people's consciousness that I believe is allowing people to see "How F'd up" certain aspects of our life really are and how we should go about changing those aspects.

If given enough time to evolve I'm sure humans won't need to have wars between factions, they'll have ways to extort what they want without killing a single person which would be beneficial to both sides at that point.

I don't think war will ever go away but war doesn't necessarily mean to attempt to gain another's resources. Maybe Aliens like hamburgers to and McDonald's if forbidden past the Kuiper belt?

[Mugwump]

Sentient life in other parts of the universe would be driven by the same survival instincts all living beings in earth share: air, land, water, food. Animals kill each other of the same species, and especially those of other species, to satisfy the needs for these resources. Humans aren't excluded. Europeans traveled to the Americas and took these resources by force from the native peoples. Aliens traveling to earth would almost be guaranteed to act the same way. It wouldn't even be a matter of right or wrong, just a natural conflict for natural resources. And seeing as they would have the technological advantage (just as European settlers did over the natives), humans would get their collective asses kicked. This is the biggest reason I don't buy into alien conspiracies. If they were here, it would be a shock and awe tactic: show up by force, guns blazing, kicking in doors, and taking everything they need.

Why do you feel like an alien civilization advanced enough to master technologies allowing interstellar travel would necessarily be nothing more than a bunch of mere... Americans? This is the typical self-centered mindset of mankind: "if I/we think/act like that, then everyone in the world must think/act the same! There is no other possibility." Yeah, well... not. You should watch less Roland Emmerich movies.

[Dutch]

@bfg666

First off, I don't even know who Roland emmerich is. Secondly, why are you living in fantasy land? Do you honestly believe the technological status of a civilization directly corresponds to it's ability to avoid conflict? You are completely incorrect about this mindset being exclusive to mankind. Every form of life on earth has been driven by the same set of rules since the first single celled organisms.

Wolf packs fight for territory. Crocodiles fight for food. Rival ant colonies war with each other. Its nature.

Humans stand out the most because we have the intelligence to realize these instinctual impulses are wrong, but on a global scale we will never stop this behavior unless we are somehow able to eradicate every wrong-doing person. And then there is the matter of who decides what constitutes wrong-doing. Which draws us to the conclusion that we would ALL have to be identical in belief, personality, morality. Which sounds an awful lot like communism, which we all know doesn't work.

Do you really think you will get ISIS militants to sign onto this peace policy?

My entire point is to point out the vast multitude of situations that cause conflict, both rational (resources) and irrational (ideology). To think that another civilization isn't bound by these conflicts is childish. You've been watching too many movies like Avatar.

[Phenom]

@bfg666

...
Do you really think you will get ISIS militants to sign onto this peace policy?
...

I've watched some documentaries and read some information about intelligence and advanced intelligent beings where it basically says if a civilization of beings doesn't learn to live essentially in harmony with itself and it's eco-system it's doomed for self destruction.

Maybe there's some hardcoded actions the universe has where negativity just can't truly prosper and only suits to keep the residents of a planet on that planet.

If we "start wars with [enter whoever here]" do we think about vacationing in places where [whoever] may reside? No of course not because we'd run the risk of death in most places.

Stupidity kills and would make a great barrier to keep a hostile civilization in it's corral (Humans).

Supposedly humans have made a Type 0[Zero] civilization which I'm not even going to try and fully explain, but I'll let my best friend Michio Kaku explain since he's so awesome!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GooNhOIMY0

I think hostile civilizations usually don't make it off their planet(s) as they tend to self destruct to soon to expand out into the solar system/galaxy/universe.

[MadGypsy]

It seems like a lot of this discussion is based on the claims of one organization founded on early rocket tech from nazi scientists (Operation Paperclip - NASA). What reason do you have to believe that NASA has ever told you the truth, especially when NASA comissioned artists have even come out and not only said it's all bullshit but even exposed how the bullshit is manufactured?

It's really no different than religion. Some "entity" claims it's telling you the truth about things you have no possible way to verify. Maybe NASA has told nothing but the truth but, I have no reason to believe any of it without a way to verify their info.

[Adam]

We are already here.

[MadGypsy]

@Adam

I read somewhere once, if you dug a hole, completely covered it up and lived in it, you would start living by Mars "days". I guess implying if you couldn't see the sun or moon in any way, your body will revert to Mars time. I don't know if that's true (I don't even know if there is a Mars) but, if it is, maybe you are right about us already being here.

[Mugwump]

I'm well aware we don't live in Carebear-land, thank you very much. The thing is, the real world is not binary. It's neither all right nor all wrong. Therefore, your stance is as puerile as the opposite stance you're erroneously attributing me.

Furthermore, Phenom has an extremely solid point: no civilization can last very long if its people don't evolve and learn cooperation and non-aggression. It has been proven time and again throughout history. Corollary: a galactic civilization is far less likely to be bloodthirsty conquerors than us.

Sgt-PieFace has another solid point that seems to have completely eluded you: the lack of need for OUR resources for an advanced space civilization. 1) Beings capable of traveling from star to star would necessarily have mastered the power of limitless clean energy - no need for our hydrocarbons. 2) If they mastered unlimited energy, there's nothing stopping them from having the means to ensure sufficient stocks of food for themselves - no need to eat us and/or our crops and livestock. 3) There is far more water in the Oort cloud than on Earth, not to mention moons like Jupiter's Europa that as far as we know don't shelter sentient lifeforms, so from a logistical point of view it makes absolutely no sense that they would come HERE to fight a fellow sentient species just to steal our water while they have at their disposal a free, unused supply literally next door. Again, this is purely anthropocentrism talking. This is what I meant by the Emmerich comment: the cliché view of big bad mean scary aliens is very childish and utterly ridiculous. You've never seen Independence Day?

BTW, "Which sounds an awful lot like communism, which we all know doesn't work." We don't know that at all, as communism has never come to exist. What has existed under the deceitful guise of communism to this day is just another form of dictatorship. That's really not what communism is about, like, at all. In fact, true communism could easily become the ideal Golden Age utopia if it ever was applied. Read Marx. He was disgusted by how his ideals were perverted by the leaders of the movement, that's why he refused to take any part in that shit.

[Mugwump]

MadGipsy

Your Mars comment isn't exactly true. The truth is that experiments have demonstrated that people with no reference whatsoever to the passing of time, like a day/night cycle, will soon lose any sense of a daily sleep/wake cycle, thus demonstrating that only the force of habit and external circumstances trigger these cycles in human biology. The connection with Mars? This scientific data was used to argue that mankind would easily adapt to a longer cycle like it exists on Mars. That's it.

edit: *MadGypsy, sorry, I don't often make typos because I proofread myself but this one evaded me.

[Dutch]

@bfg666

I'm not going to drag this out because in all honesty, everything everyone has said on here is pure speculation. But there are 2 things you said that I still take issue with.

I agree that a space faring species would need to have its shit together. I don't agree that a species ever could have its shit together. Based on the trends we've seen on earth amongst all species, it's pretty safe to say the law of nature is pretty consistent. It all boils down to physics: everything on a certain level is in competition for a finite amount of resources on a planet. If a species has to be in harmony to travel space, harvesting resources off world all of a sudden becomes un-achievable.

As far as communism, even pure communism can't happen because the system is more prone to a dictatorship than capitalism. Communism requires strict compliance and forced unity amongst humans, who are individualistic by nature. This individualism stems from our deep cognitive ability. The reason pure communism works for ant colonies is because they're dumb (comparatively speaking). Communism is a fairy tale because you will never get everyone on earth (including me) to sign onto it. I'm an individual, I like doing things my way. Not communist compliant.

[Phenom]

I'm an individual, I like doing things my way. Not communist compliant.

I'm curious what you would do if everyone did things your way, would you opt to change how you do things or would you be happy with everyone doing things your way?

AND in-so making each individual who wanted to do things their own way a mini-commie?

"You're an individual!? You dang mini-commie!" lol!