Politicking

[Stung]

The entire point of social control and order is to find a medium where our self interests are maximized while keeping said self interests from causing major imbalances that directly and paradoxically end up hurting us. Under this basic and general principle I see no valid reason why universal healthcare shouldn't be adopted, considering the massive imbalances we have today. Problems r/t obesity are largely correlated with economic imbalances/affordability and availability of healthcare. While I understand why you may not have the moral imperative to want to shell out the cash for it, it's probably in your best interests in the long-term.

The fact that prevention should be a larger focus (which I agree on) has no bearing on whether universal health care is the best model for a symbiotic/synergistic society.

[Solecord]

(in reply to Baker) Agreed about universal health care. In Wisconsin there was talk of our governor instituting a state health care program. Some preliminary numbers were put out on how it would be paid for, and small businesses would be taxed like crazy just to pay for this. I own a small business and also work for another small business. instituting the proposed health care system for the state would most likely put me out of a job.... it would simply be too expensive to run a business in the state.

I already ship out enough of my hard earned money to the government, I don't want to ship out more to pay for someone else's health care.

[Stung]

No offense intended but the people of certain middle eastern countries have been killing each other for over a thousand years and nothing we (the US) or anyone else does is going to change that. We could secure Iraq and Afganistan completely and the day we leave they would go back to the only thing they know. (sad as it is) Countries like that don't want the responsibility of having a democracy. They would actually have to "produce" something...like a viable economy for their people. Too few people have ALL the money and they're not about to give it up. They're leaders hide under the umbrella of religion and brainwash entire countries into believing that GOD wants them to do this or that. That's just emotional blackmail for poor ignorant people. Not that it's their fault that they're poor and ignorant, they're just victoms of circumstance. Separation of church and state works, we're living proof. I'm not saying we're perfect by any means, but we've done pretty well in our 200+ yr. existence. A long way in a very short period of time. We've elected some fairly intelligent folks to run the show, so far, and when they've screwed up, we bounced them out on their can. (for the most part) I'm not real confident about the upcoming election... Hillary...eh dunno... obama hussain... no... and noone on the conservative side is doing much for me either... I KNOW... none of the above! (reference to the Richard Pryor movie Brewster's Millions). heh heh I guess I have 15 months to decide, I'll come up with something.

This sounds straight off the press of an O'reilly Factor advertisement.

The statement that the people "don't want the responsibility that comes with having a democracy" is incomplete. I think you mean "the people don't want the responsibility that comes with having a democracy that is imposed and for all intents and purposes controlled by an external force." While many of them hide under the umbrella of God, members of this nation hide under the umbrella of moral superiority and the model of government being the final word on deciding said superiority. Such a level of arrogance that is taken to a totalitarian extreme of forceful and external imposement on members of the "Axis of OMG EVIL" is hardly grounds for writing them off as heathen. We've killed ourselves for thousands of years as well, and did not stop until totalitarianism and appeals to force ceased; this point is entirely tangential and has no bearing on the debate.

[Baker]

I own a small business and also work for another small business. instituting the proposed health care system for the state would most likely put me out of a job.... it would simply be too expensive to run a business in the state.

One thing I think has happened to politics is that I believe that most politicians -- subconsciously or consciously -- don't seem to give a damn about young people.

Let states run these (asinine) experiments like the attempted "free healthcare" law that is in Massachusetts.

The concept of foisting this on the whole country without a working model would be a disaster.

Under this basic and general principle I see no valid reason why universal healthcare shouldn't be adopted, considering the massive imbalances we have today.

I can. It would explode the federal bureacracies.

Do you know how much someone who works at the post office makes for sorting the f****ing mail? About $25 per hour ($50,000 - $60,000/year).

That's an $8-$12 dollar an hour job in the private sector.

Washington D.C. is one big, fat, bloated city with hundreds of thousands grossly overpaid people who do not work hard at all.

Our government is enormously wasteful.

Problems r/t obesity are largely correlated with economic imbalances/affordability and availability of healthcare.

Obesity is not caused by economic imbalances or the availability of healthcare.

You are studying to be a doctor (or are at least in medical school).

There are VERY, VERY few fat doctors. It is because of education.

Obesity is an educational and lifestyle challenge, but also needs to be combatted by economic penalties.

[Stung]

Problem with Wisconsin especially is a problem of resources (money), and since we have a central government that can attribute the resources needed, it needs to occur at the Federal level. Put some of that economic growth that's so valued to work.

[Stung]

I think we're forgetting that the economy is also an idea that can be manipulated to fit our basic needs.
I also never declared obesity was caused by money. I claimed it was correlated. Connecting the dots does the rest.

[Baker]

Such a level of arrogance that is taken to a totalitarian extreme of forceful and external imposement on members of the "Axis of OMG EVIL" is hardly grounds for writing them off as heathen. We've killed ourselves for thousands of years as well, and did not stop until totalitarianism and appeals to force ceased; this point is entirely tangential and has no bearing on the debate.

The "War on Terrorism" is largely an attempt to distract the populace while the politicians line their pockets and sell out the country (department of homeland security's budget is enormous and what exactly does it really do?).

While you and others spend a lot of time thinking about things that do not really matter abroad, you will not notice what they are doing in other arenas.

Almost nothing is less important than what is going on in Iraq and elsewhere.

When you talk about manipulation, it is so sad to me how easily the general populace can be tricked and distracted by Iraq and so forth, and not paying attention to what is going on here.

In the last 5 or 6 years, there has been almost no effort to combat the real issues that matter for the future of the country.

[Stung]

I strongly agree with that. It's unfortunate that the public is basically conditioned to play along and accept it as the end all, be all of the election; but with the internet and more selectivity/customization of what we expose ourselves to, there is hope.

[Baker]

... but with the internet and more selectivity/customization of what we expose ourselves to, there is hope.

I've been thinking about this post a lot in the last 24 hours or so.

I'm not so certain this is correct. Let me explain ...

I think the internet serves as a great vehicle for the conveyance of information, but I think there is a "glass ceiling" or some sort of inherent limit to the good of the internet.

I think most of the most valuable information is not on the internet and/or it cannot be found and/or can be found but not communicated/conveyed (because it requires to much explaining or is too complicated).

Similar to how reading a textbook is a poor substitute for, say, a college course or professional training.

I guess what I am saying is that the internet raises the median educational levels FAR above the prior norm, but cannot be expected to break a certain threshold (a threshold we are coming increasingly close to hitting; we will not hit it soon but the rate of increase is steadily declining.)

You seem to be a student of logic, something I greatly admire, but I do not think well structured thinking naturally occurs nor is any effort made to teach it.

I see far too many educated people that lack basic understanding of things like human behavior, economics, statistics, philosophy, marketing and biology (yes biology matters) and worse -- they don't know it.

The main thing that the USA has going for it is education, really the main asset in this country, and if we fail at improving that, we will be left entirely dependent on immigration, foreign purchase of American assets (real estate and stock ownership of US companies) and foreign lending. :d :d

I guess what I am saying is that it is true that the internet has been causing a general increase in intelligence due to simply the "osmosis effect" but this effect is vastly inferior to having a good plan (i.e. few people become conditioned athletes thru the "osmosis effect").

/Seems like a tangent, maybe it is, but your post made me think of it.

[Stung]

We've slipped to 14th with respect to education availability and such in International Standards. I have a more robust post planned but I am hogtied by time constraints, bbl

P.S., I agree there is a ceiling with respect to the internet, but I think the ceiling is more prevalent in our base education; the tendency to strive for average handicaps alot of excellent students' potential and such. Need more sweeping reform to give students an independent capacity to excel further if they so choose, which I tend to not see at the lower levels, which science deems absolutely paramount with respect to potential (recent article on www.medicalnewstoday.com if anyone cares) ...general and vague description but I have to leave =)