Tactix

[omix2]

autospells are a blessing. fucking clicking on that shit manually... it's not like it takes some sort of skill to push a button, it's just an irritating waste of time.

[Rampage]

(Directed at Rampage's post above omicron's )
Well then don't play dumb that there aren't single unit spells in SC as well :/ Queen parasite and broodlings, DA feedback, Ghost lockdown, Infested Terran suicide, Devourer devour, BC Yamato, Vulture spidermine [microing when being attacked by goons], and Medic blind and restor.

WC3 has it's fair share of AoE spells as well. Every race has a hero that can use Shock Wave or War Stomp. The Archmage's Blizzard and the Bloodmage's Flame Strike. tranquility, Earthquake, Starfall, Death and Decay, Animate Dead, and Big Bad Voodoo. Horde Totems are AoE and aren't as versatile as the quicker minded spidermines.

--

I'm really glad that SC2 won't be having much autocast spells (blizzard mentioned they'd only have auto SCV repair[dumb] and auto Medic heal[medic return ]). That's the 2nd major turnoff for me in wc3. Autocast spells just give players too much breathing room, making manual spells like Purge not as affective as the instant cast.

Difference is, you might lock down a unit or two, but spells are ongoing. The specific role of a sorceress is to be a caster. A high templar is not just a caster, he is useful for fusing an archon so you can attack. How often are Queens made? They have one purpose, to destroy siege tanks, other then that they are completely useless. Infested Terran suicide? When the hell do you see someone take over a command center in pro game play , let alone big game hunters?

The abilities you have listed are COMPLETELY USELESS. Like you said, go watch demos, in all of Slayers_Boxers demos out of all the pros he is the ONLY ONE during a SINGLE match who used Restore and Blind from a medic. Abilities in SC are useless, there are rarely any abilities that are so great you have to amass that single unit to destroy an entire army. On the contrary WC3 is reliant on spells. Many units have counter spells, and immunity to certain unit's spells, thats what makes microing and spells so important in WC3. I like how you didn't mention once anything I said about the Macro/Upkeep but only singled out one thing you can attempt to take a stab at and thats unit spells.

I have proven the Micro in SC is not nearly on the same level as WC3, and this fact does not diminish either game, they are just two completely different games. SC is still the better game, and I enjoy it far more.

PS. The only spells that are truly a blessing are Dark Swarm, Feedback, maelstorm, psionic storm, spider mines, lock down, emp shockwave, and irradiate, as well as the arbitar abilities (which are rarely used due to its extremely high vespene cost of 500). The spells in the two games are not even comparable, you do not need to constantly watch over single units in SC to consistently cast spells onto your opponents as you do in Warcraft. You do not need to surround units the way you do in warcraft.

SC = the faster you click, the faster you build, the more units you build = the higher the chance of you winning the game. That is why Koreans are so highly Touted, because their APM is extremely high in comparison to normal players, and they go crazy with their fucking keyboards clicking everything in site.

I still think WC3 takes more individual skill and attention to detail and the map becomes an integral and vital part of the game, SC is just more fun for me.

[Canadian*Sniper]

Now we're getting into personal preference of play

I rarely fuse two HTs into Archons unless it's really my ONLY option like I can't let them retreat. I use queens a lot so I can parasite peons, overlords, and dropships. I've infested a number of CCs in game in the past but then again, I usually just use the building as a shield. Big Game Hunter is a money map and money maps are for newbs. Blind is the best spell to use on Zerg overlords. Detection ability = gone. Restore has saved my wraths and tanks in the past.

How exactly did you prove that micro in SC is not nearly on the same level as WC3 again? Because the spells are different? Because you have a central hero unit in an army? Because of macro in wc3? :/

And yes, Koreans are friggin nuts on the keyboard. Their hands move in the a blur.

WC3 is about effectively controlling each single unit in battle to win, as opposed to BW, where you just send out as many units as you can for a massive onslaught.

Remember that it was this statement I challenged in the first place. Whether WC3 has +1 more micro than SC does not concern me anymore. Micro is always used in SC even late game. Take for example 6 scourges and 3 mutas vs 1 carrier, 2 scouts, and 3 corsairs. Micro would determine the victor in that battle. 2 Reavers and 4 dragoons vs 10 zerglings and 1 lurker. Any battle scenario requires micro involving unit placement and attack commands.

I used to have a UMS map that would put you and your opponent in many different battle scenarios and you'd have to use micro at your best to win those battles. If I can find that map, I will post a downloadable link on this thread.

[Canadian*Sniper]

Here it is. Proof that micro in late game is important in SC and therefor, does exist.

[omix2]

SC still isn't a micro game while WC3 is.

SC = amass army nonstop
WC3 = control waste (keep units from dying)

[Rampage]

I don't get it, you selectively choose to respond to whatever you wish through everything that I say in order to try and make my entire statement look false.

Never did I say you don't have to Micro in SC, I clearly said that its not as micro-reliant as WC3 is, which requires a lot more micro for the various reasons I provided.

[Canadian*Sniper]

Let me solve your confusion by saying I'm not 100% disagreeing with you and I'm only showing my disagreement with what I'm responding back to. So then everything else you wrote that I didn't respond to or issue is something I agreed with or don't care to discuss.

What I'm disagreeing with is the whole SC is more about army mass (what is this, big game hunters???) and WC3 is micro. Because WC3 can be just as army mass as SC and SC can be just as micro as WC3. It's dependent on the user to choose what the hell he/she wants to do. Just about every RTS including command and conquer strengthens you chance of winning with your use of micro and macro.

[Rampage]

Yes, but you completely ignored the point which said..

Macro makes Micro more important.

Lower upkeep = less units, more importance on units = much more micro to fight/save/use abilities of each individual unit. It is not true that you can amass the same size army as BW at all, that is completely false.

200 unit capacity allows for amassing of many units, regardless of whether it is played on BGH or not. It is not nearly as important to save each individual unit as you have more money to spend on a wide variety of non-expensive units. Microing is not nearly as important, that is what we are comparing. That is not to say there is no microing at all, if there was no microing it wouldn't be an RTS.

[Canadian*Sniper]

edit: we reached our understanding on the SC army thing. well kinda

There's a reason I don't play on money maps and that's because it brings the charm that there's no real loss if you lose you tanks, goons, or hydras since you can just make an impenetrable defense and stock up in your base which shall forever be useful for you.

Units in SC are not cheap and the only way I can think that a unit is cheap is if you're playing on a money map but on a REAL map you have to expand every 3-7 minutes to keep up with your enemy. It's very rare that I'd be in a game using more than 100 supplies and having 1k mineral unspent because there's always constant battles which I'm focusing on and while I'm focusing on the micro of each battle, I'm also focusing on the macro of my buildings making sure they're making themselves useful. Putting buildings in key locations.

Again, the only reason someone would find units really cheap would be because you're getting way too much money. That's either because your opponent SUCKS or you're on a money map because normal maps only keep your base useful for about 10-15 minutes.

But yes WC3 adds that extra macro aspect where you can only put 5 peons on a goldmine and the income becomes very short with the bigger army you have. But micro is not something that can be measured between SC and WC3 because it's equally important in both games. People who throw their units away lose.

Rampage, I challenge you to a SC battle on that map I attached above

[Bam]

spooker started a war

[Canadian*Sniper]

Quake would make a fun RTS where each weapon was a buildable unit and the Rocketlauncher units could rocketjump to higher obstacles and bunnyhop after a rocket blast Add quake monsters in to add more units.

[QuadRaptor]

spooker started a war

I'm selling foam bats at $5 a piece. You can't win a war without a foam bat! Go out there and beat the shit out of your enemy with a foam bat! Who wants one?

[spooker]

im selling the nerf crotchbat