had to respond to this

Too late now! Nice try to changing to a nice post, you ungrateful Anti-American pig who lives here!

Omicron, The Feds are coming to take you to Guantanamo Bay, don't forget your pacifier EMO-toddler! HaHa! I destroyed you so bad you didn't even have anything to say for yourself. NOW GET THE FUCK OUT!

[omix2]

This sounds like usual "gee the US is bad" stuff.

Now, before you stop thinking and falsely decide I have the opposite position because that is what you have been trained to do, listen to what I am about to say.

---> Everyone is lying. <----

This is the problem. And both "sides" indoctrinate people to shut down their brains.

Sounds like you've reached a conclusion. Therefore your brain has been shutdown. People who have a reached a conclusion stop thinking.

And politicians and the media indoctrinate people to stop thinking.



There is field of science called communications theory. It is different than psychology, but with a lot of overlaps.

It is fascinating, but also terribly disappointing. It is also why most people will never be much more than unthinking drones.

I've mentioned in other threads the 2 positions con game that US politics likes to do. Why are there 2 positions? Are any of these positions right?

It's all about control. You can be more easily controlled if there are 2 fabricated (and wrong) positions advocated by the media and the political parties.

Did you form this position yourself?
Have you ever asked yourself why these positions are so simplistic?
Have you ever asked yourself why these positions are so finalistic in their conclusions?

If you are fed a simple and finalistic position and buy it, you have been suckered.

Simple sells, is easy to communicate and requires little education to adopt so it can be mass transmitted with a high adoption rate.

Finalistic conclusions mean that you are relieved from further exploration or questioning so you no longer need to think or seek answers. Brain shutdown.

Mighty convenient for the powers that be for you to stop thinking, isn't it?

History will tell you all you need to know. Iran - Iraq war: both sides played against each other. Saddam encouraged to invade Iran and funded. Hundreds of thousands die, kids are sent into minefields, etc. 9-11 is GI JOE toy soldiers compared to the Iran Iraq war.

Then after supporting Osama vs. the USSR they radicalized him thanks to a US military base near mecca. They've held the veil over the eyes of the American people and continue to assert that Muslims are inherently evil people that just don't want to be free and hate our way of life. When in reality the whole situation is due to the USA encroaching on the middle east, supporting Israel, fomenting coups, using the CIA, etc.

I do not take any "finalist" positions. I am a free thinker. It doesn't take a genius to know that the united states is an imperialist power, one with only its own interests at heart with no regard for innocent lives, real democracy, or other people.

[Shadowswift]

intelligent and rational people do not train other intelligent and rational people with cowardly tactics in the attempt to vaporise thousands of innocent civilians because "god told me it was the right thing to do."

get real.

This country is evil, even in intentions. It's hard to imagine the other side being anything but right. This country masquerades as some kind of moral force in the world when in reality it has perpetrated some very heinous acts ... I sympathize with the terrorists ... This country will fall.

sympathize - definition: to agree, correspond, or accord.

LOL!

You really made my day with this one, I think I might put this in my sig. Great quote moron! The Feds will break down your door and take your 5 dollar computer away in your mother's dingy basement - where you live - from which you bravely talk so much shit from. And I bet you won't be so courageous then as they shove their guns in your face and slam you to the ground, and cuff you.

You do not deserve to be here, you are an ungreateful Anti-American bottom feeder. You really outdid and accomplished yourself with this one, CONGRATUFUCKINGLATIONS MORON, you pass 5th grade! :party:

More great stuff from the Omicron's original post: (In case he quickly comes and erases it) HA!

We enslave 3rd world countries and force people into poverty. The USA assassinates democratically elected leaders with the CIA The USA is the cause of fundamental islam, and the rest of the world has to suffer for it. This country is evil, even in intentions. It's hard to imagine the other side being anything but right. This country masquerades as some kind of moral force in the world when in reality it has perpetrated some very heinous acts, and continues to wage war and destabilize the middle east and with it the rest of the world.

There are many reasons for what they do. osama. Now he's supposedly the most evil man in the world. I sympathize with the terrorists, because they are the underdogs fighting an evil imperialist giant. This country will fall.

OSAMA IS THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN THE WORLD - DUMBSHIT! LOL!

omg thats so outrageous and innovative. can i hold your hand

Tell me about it, what a bunch of obvious sophomorical bullshit! HO HO HO!!! Any 12 year old can say the same thing from just reading a newspaper. You are not impressing anybody with that bullshit, nice try on wanting to look intelligent, but you fall flat on your dumb face, faker! ROFL! But I strongly suggest you stick with that toilet plunger and unclog those public toilets janitor boy!, because you are made of the same waste remains and that is where you come from. And it seems no matter how hard you flush, you still do not go away! BWAHAHA! OWNED AGAIN! Or better yet, stick to playing Quake and get pulverized by average Joes. LOL!

[Baker]

Since the end of WWII the united states has approached foreign affairs with a policy of outright imperialism. We enslave 3rd world countries and force people into poverty. The USA assassinates democratically elected leaders with the CIA (Chile). The USA is the cause of fundamental islam, and the rest of the world has to suffer for it. Does anyone even remember the Iran-Iraq war? This country is evil, even in intentions. It's hard to imagine the other side being anything but right. This country masquerades as some kind of moral force in the world when in reality it has perpetrated some very heinous acts, and continues to wage war and destabilize the middle east and with it the rest of the world.

The truth is muslims would've never bothered us if had simply lived and let live. There are many reasons for what they do. We radicalized osama himself. Now he's supposedly the most evil man in the world. I sympathize with the terrorists, because they are the underdogs fighting an evil imperialist giant. This country will fall.

This sounds like usual "gee the US is bad" stuff.

Now, before you stop thinking and falsely decide I have the opposite position because that is what you have been trained to do, listen to what I am about to say.

---> Everyone is lying. <----

This is the problem. And both "sides" indoctrinate people to shut down their brains.

Sounds like you've reached a conclusion. Therefore your brain has been shutdown. People who have a reached a conclusion stop thinking.

And politicians and the media indoctrinate people to stop thinking.

The truth is muslims would've never bothered us if had simply lived and let live. There are many reasons for what they do. We radicalized osama himself. Now he's supposedly the most evil man in the world. I sympathize with the terrorists, because they are the underdogs fighting an evil imperialist giant. This country will fall.

There is field of science called communications theory. It is different than psychology, but with a lot of overlaps.

It is fascinating, but also terribly disappointing. It is also why most people will never be much more than unthinking drones.

I've mentioned in other threads the 2 positions con game that US politics likes to do. Why are there 2 positions? Are any of these positions right?

It's all about control. You can be more easily controlled if there are 2 fabricated (and wrong) positions advocated by the media and the political parties.

Did you form this position yourself?
Have you ever asked yourself why these positions are so simplistic?
Have you ever asked yourself why these positions are so finalistic in their conclusions?

If you are fed a simple and finalistic position and buy it, you have been suckered.

Simple sells, is easy to communicate and requires little education to adopt so it can be mass transmitted with a high adoption rate.

Finalistic conclusions mean that you are relieved from further exploration or questioning so you no longer need to think or seek answers. Brain shutdown.

Mighty convenient for the powers that be for you to stop thinking, isn't it?

[spooker]

omg thats so outrageous and innovative. can i hold your hand

[omix2]

The sentiment is true, but I have issue with the use of the word "empire". The reason is I do is that a poor choice of words taints the way things are thought about.

What is really happening is a large philosophical battle of a global scope is going on. Although the visible face is the USA, it isn't just us.

And likewise, some of the things the USA has done were wrong. Not in intent, but in effect. But wrong nevertheless.

So by linking this change to the USA, it leads to judging the USA on actions/results. This is wrong because it doesn't see the larger picture.

Once you reveal what is actually going on, you can question it and see what will and won't happen.

One example: Muslims aren't wrong about everything.

As their influence in the world grows, they will change and be more like us. But also, "we" will become more like them.

You can already see this in politics in the USA. Notice a lot more references to religion by candidates of both parties?

The concept of mocking others religious beliefs is declining.



More philosophy:

Only bad behavior results in substantial change in the world. Because the only time we evolve is when we are combatting bad behavior.

Without bad behavior, the world stagnates.

You see this in the moral slide and loss of focus that always occurs during times of peace.

And this moral slide (mental laziness, really) always results in war. WWII is an example is this pattern. 9/11 was a result of this pattern.

WWII was preceded by some terribly inept leaders in Europe making very bad decisions.

And this is a theme of so many movies.

If you have it easy, you get content. If you get content, you get lazy. If you get lazy, you stop thinking and develop a moral equivalence attitude like "who cares?" or "what does this matter to me?".

This happens to countries, this happens to people and this happens to corporations.

Evolution does not favor that behavior because evolution favors constant improvement and the will to better oneself.

Since the end of WWII the united states has approached foreign affairs with a policy of outright imperialism. We enslave 3rd world countries and force people into poverty. The USA assassinates democratically elected leaders with the CIA (Chile). The USA is the cause of fundamental islam, and the rest of the world has to suffer for it. Does anyone even remember the Iran-Iraq war? This country is evil, even in intentions. It's hard to imagine the other side being anything but right. This country masquerades as some kind of moral force in the world when in reality it has perpetrated some very heinous acts, and continues to wage war and destabilize the middle east and with it the rest of the world.

The truth is muslims would've never bothered us if had simply lived and let live. There are many reasons for what they do. We radicalized osama himself. Now he's supposedly the most evil man in the world. I sympathize with the terrorists, because they are the underdogs fighting an evil imperialist giant. This country will fall.

[Baker]

more and more it appears we are becoming less of a nation and more of an empire.

The sentiment is true, but I have issue with the use of the word "empire". The reason is I do is that a poor choice of words taints the way things are thought about.

What is really happening is a large philosophical battle of a global scope is going on. Although the visible face is the USA, it isn't just us.

And likewise, some of the things the USA has done were wrong. Not in intent, but in effect. But wrong nevertheless.

So by linking this change to the USA, it leads to judging the USA on actions/results. This is wrong because it doesn't see the larger picture.

Once you reveal what is actually going on, you can question it and see what will and won't happen.

One example: Muslims aren't wrong about everything.

As their influence in the world grows, they will change and be more like us. But also, "we" will become more like them.

You can already see this in politics in the USA. Notice a lot more references to religion by candidates of both parties?

The concept of mocking others religious beliefs is declining.

whether that will end up being good or bad is unknown. sometimes a bad idea can turn out the best results. sometimes a good idea can lead to millions of deaths...religion, for example.

More philosophy:

Only bad behavior results in substantial change in the world. Because the only time we evolve is when we are combatting bad behavior.

Without bad behavior, the world stagnates.

You see this in the moral slide and loss of focus that always occurs during times of peace.

And this moral slide (mental laziness, really) always results in war. WWII is an example is this pattern. 9/11 was a result of this pattern.

WWII was preceded by some terribly inept leaders in Europe making very bad decisions.

And this is a theme of so many movies.

If you have it easy, you get content. If you get content, you get lazy. If you get lazy, you stop thinking and develop a moral equivalence attitude like "who cares?" or "what does this matter to me?".

This happens to countries, this happens to people and this happens to corporations.

Evolution does not favor that behavior because evolution favors constant improvement and the will to better oneself.

[Shadowswift]

more and more it appears we are becoming less of a nation and more of an empire. whether that will end up being good or bad is unknown. sometimes a bad idea can turn out the best results. sometimes a good idea can lead to millions of deaths...religion, for example.

[omix2]

With government control, the next thing becomes government regulation.

Nationalized health care would begin this process.

Sort of like how mandatory auto insurance led to laws requiring people to wear motorcycle helmets and requiring seatbelts. [I don't care, I think they should, but anyways ...]

I'm not saying this is bad, I'm saying this is what happens when individual choice is replaced with government compulsion.

The erosion begins. The rules. Reimbursement caps. Managed health care.



My point was that someone who goes to school for 4 years, then 3-4 more and then has to be an intern for a while should be paid more.

Doing anything for the money is wrong, you have to have your heart in it.



There is an example of what DeathKnight and I were talking about.

If the USA has the malpractice stuff messed up (yes), then one way to avoid that overhead is outsourcing. It lowers costs (and probably quality too.)



Yeah, but you are missing something.

There are certain things Europe can do VERY well that we cannot.

Europe is several small independent countries. There is an attachment to the people and they care more about small issues as a result.

Our government is a bloated bureaucracy isolated from the people and accountable to no one because the country is so large.

You are assuming that if WE nationalize healthcare, that it would be similar to nationalized healthcare in Europe.

I don't think that is true for a second.

In our country, the government employees are VERY detached from their function and from people. The politicians are unaccountable (re-election rate 90%++) and government waste is enormous.

While this is true in every country to SOME extent, the USA due to the geographic size and lack of representation is special.

Within 15 years, they would have it very screwed up.

The Department of Homeland Security for example has a budget I think of $50 billion per year. What do they do? 9/11 is long over.

At least this is what I think.

Very true. Roman empire scenario. I'm eventually planning out moving out of here and I wish it were now during this shit recession.

[Baker]

Not exactly accurate. Doctors would not be getting paid any less, if anything they would be paid more.

With government control, the next thing becomes government regulation.

Nationalized health care would begin this process.

Sort of like how mandatory auto insurance led to laws requiring people to wear motorcycle helmets and requiring seatbelts. [I don't care, I think they should, but anyways ...]

I'm not saying this is bad, I'm saying this is what happens when individual choice is replaced with government compulsion.

The erosion begins. The rules. Reimbursement caps. Managed health care.

Furthermore any of those that are getting into it for the money are exactly what is wrong with this system.

My point was that someone who goes to school for 4 years, then 3-4 more and then has to be an intern for a while should be paid more.

Doing anything for the money is wrong, you have to have your heart in it.

Those radiologists in india are not culpable for malpractice suits, which makes the whole act of outsourcing radiology very despicable on the part of the hospitals.

There is an example of what DeathKnight and I were talking about.

If the USA has the malpractice stuff messed up (yes), then one way to avoid that overhead is outsourcing. It lowers costs (and probably quality too.)

Oh yeah, think this country's great? Another one of my grandparents got stomach cancer and had surgery in russia and survived and live a great life. Here they won't even attempt it. Pathetic. The state of healthcare here is like 30th place worldwide, it's abysmal and people still think its great.

"HillaryCare" or whatever you call it... It's already been proven that socialized medicine works much better than our system. Hello!? It's broken ...

Yeah, but you are missing something.

There are certain things Europe can do VERY well that we cannot.

Europe is several small independent countries. There is an attachment to the people and they care more about small issues as a result.

Our government is a bloated bureaucracy isolated from the people and accountable to no one because the country is so large.

You are assuming that if WE nationalize healthcare, that it would be similar to nationalized healthcare in Europe.

I don't think that is true for a second.

In our country, the government employees are VERY detached from their function and from people. The politicians are unaccountable (re-election rate 90%++) and government waste is enormous.

While this is true in every country to SOME extent, the USA due to the geographic size and lack of representation is special.

Within 15 years, they would have it very screwed up.

The Department of Homeland Security for example has a budget I think of $50 billion per year. What do they do? 9/11 is long over.

At least this is what I think.

[omix2]

This is why it is important for different countries to pursue their own ideas and for different states to do this as well.

This prevents a wrong way of doing things from driving us off a cliff.

For example:

Ford and GM are 2 giant and severely broken companies, to be quite honest. The productivity is terrible due to the union mentality. In the USA, these companies could be monopolies and could prevent anyone else from entering the market.

But Toyota is not in the USA, they have a better philosophy of product quality controls and a different work ethic and make a far superior product.

Diversity is part of the evolution formula. So is eating the competition if they do something stupid or get soft.



Fortunately, at least in this country leaving is an option.

The people that were really screwed were the ones behind the Berlin Wall and in the Soviet Union that couldn't leave.

But yes, this is a major problem and it sucks. My current complaint would be if something like HillaryCare were imposed on us all. Apparently, doctors/med students feel the same way. To become a doctor is huge investment of time and $$$, they expect to make a lot of money for making such a sacrifice. They don't expect to make the same $$$ as everyone else who didn't make that investment of 10 years of education.

/That's just 1 example, maybe a bad one ... who knows. So many other ones, of course.

Not exactly accurate. Doctors would not be getting paid any less, if anything they would be paid more. Those that want to work in lower class / government controlled facilities might be on government pay, but everyone knows there are certain advantages to working for the government.

Furthermore any of those that are getting into it for the money are exactly what is wrong with this system. They should be fine making 6 figures period. The profession I am going into gets 340k at start. I wouldn't complain as long as I were making 6 figures. Even healthcare is taking a hit from globalization, some radiology is now outsourced. Those radiologists in india are not culpable for malpractice suits, which makes the whole act of outsourcing radiology very despicable on the part of the hospitals.

I have very little respect for my future peers in this field. Most doctors wouldn't even operate on my grandpa because he has a risk of dying on the table. The only other alternative is for him to die. So basically they'd rather let him die than attempt to save him. And the chance for someone with mid to late stage stomach cancer survival is something like 30-40%. Those are great numbers when compared to DEATH IN 6 FUCKING MONTHS if you ask me.

Oh yeah, think this country's great? Another one of my grandparents got stomach cancer and had surgery in russia and survived and live a great life. Here they won't even attempt it. Pathetic. The state of healthcare here is like 30th place worldwide, it's abysmal and people still think its great.

"HillaryCare" or whatever you call it... It's already been proven that socialized medicine works much better than our system. Hello!? It's broken, while the top 30 other countries on the list all have socialized medicine. Common sense. It is all rhetoric that healthcare automatically suffers when the government takes it over. It depends on how its run and anyone in canada would tell you they would never ever live in the american system.

[Baker]

the only real X factor to my thesis is that mankind doesnt always make the smartest decisions, even when their own well-being is at stake. the loyalists i mentioned could offer their loyalty to someone unfit for leadership. then majority rule kicks in and the populace would find itself in big trouble, an idiot in charge and too many guards to rebel against. as we look back at history as to how many times this has actually happened...Darwin's law doesnt look too good.

This is why it is important for different countries to pursue their own ideas and for different states to do this as well.

This prevents a wrong way of doing things from driving us off a cliff.

For example:

Ford and GM are 2 giant and severely broken companies, to be quite honest. The productivity is terrible due to the union mentality. In the USA, these companies could be monopolies and could prevent anyone else from entering the market.

But Toyota is not in the USA, they have a better philosophy of product quality controls and a different work ethic and make a far superior product.

Diversity is part of the evolution formula. So is eating the competition if they do something stupid or get soft.

then majority rule kicks in and the populace would find itself in big trouble, an idiot in charge and too many guards to rebel against

Fortunately, at least in this country leaving is an option.

The people that were really screwed were the ones behind the Berlin Wall and in the Soviet Union that couldn't leave.

But yes, this is a major problem and it sucks. My current complaint would be if something like HillaryCare were imposed on us all. Apparently, doctors/med students feel the same way. To become a doctor is huge investment of time and $$$, they expect to make a lot of money for making such a sacrifice. They don't expect to make the same $$$ as everyone else who didn't make that investment of 10 years of education.

/That's just 1 example, maybe a bad one ... who knows. So many other ones, of course.

[Shadowswift]

the only real X factor to my thesis is that mankind doesnt always make the smartest decisions, even when their own well-being is at stake. the loyalists i mentioned could offer their loyalty to someone unfit for leadership. then majority rule kicks in and the populace would find itself in big trouble, an idiot in charge and too many guards to rebel against. as we look back at history as to how many times this has actually happened...Darwin's law doesnt look too good.

[Baker]

oh no, i agree. survival of the fittest is not bad at all. infact, if chaos were possible, it would be a bad thing. if government were to truely dissapear, the strong would take over and either assume leadership in an organized way, or just do as they see fit, no matter who it concerned. however, as mankind has evolved, they have placed their values higher up as to who is truely strong. the intelligent and the decisive are the stronger of the species. those would be the ones to assume command should disorder ensue. loyalty is also a powerful factor. those that recognize the strength of these intelectual leaders would gain loyalty for them and be willing to defend their "rule" should opposition step forward. thus, an army is born under our new leader(s). if their leadership is efficient, the populace will most likely adopt it as its new government. if not, then a rebellion will most likely ensue. if the leader turns out not as strong as the populace first thought, then they will probably fall to the rebellion and a new leader will step forward.

"its all just a little bit of history repeating."
humans can learn quite a bit from their past.

Yes, this is why dictatorships have to buy weapons and technology, but democracies can build them themselves.