wikileaks dont download!

[lohphat]

FUNNY how the same party that portrays anyone that wears an American flag as a "right wing bigot" can brazenly declare someone is a "terrorist" for telling the truth.

I think Assange, et al are doing the right thing, but there's a lot of spurious claims going on in your post. The right, especially Palin, have recently called the wikileaks group "terrorists," and Palin said that Assange should be hunted down and killed. The Democrats are worthless, and Obama has set himself up as an enemy of transparency, but the Republicans are even worse. It's a false dichotomy. One side isn't right while the other is wrong - they're both wrong.

[MH]

Count me as another who agrees with Baker. The whole US foreign policy and national security thing seems to exist on yet another level of paranoia that the rest of humanity has yet to discover, never mind even come close to.

Besides, wouldn't it be nice to think that you have a right to know what your taxes are being spent on, and what your elected representatives are actually doing with the mandate you've given them? These acts are being done and these decisions are being made in your name, people.

We're over there to try create a democracy

This is the true irony here - the US is trying to create democracies (often out of countries that were getting along - kinda - OK until the point when they started meddling) when it's quite arguable if it even has one at home. Government of the people, by the people, for the people. Go figure.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

This could get ugly, thought I would put some emphasis on how ugly it could be. The "What if's" are staggering.
My offer to this post is, poise your "What if" questions!! mine is this;


What if every "crazy" person who ever told you 9/11 was an inside job was right?

[StatiC]

Oil.what if its about oil?

[enki]

I think Assange, et al are doing the right thing, but there's a lot of spurious claims going on in your post.

How so? I'm slamming the current administration because they absolve their liberal ethics when it suits them and adapt a very telling position that's in favor of corporations, the same as the conservatives would do if they were in power. This is hypocrisy. If you think I'm being one sided, you should have heard me when Bush was in the White House.

One side isn't right while the other is wrong - they're both wrong.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. It's the politics that I blame. The whole "Don't hate the player, hate the game" adage works well here, but probably needs the "Hate the player and the game" modification. As wing nut crazy as Jesse Ventura has been lately, he makes a good point about politics being like professional wrestling. It's all Hollywood and none of their public image is real. It's a big snow-job on the public, and this is what we have to choose from. You can't take sides anymore because the public images of those sides are just so extreme and insane. You can't choose the middle ground because underlying the rhetoric - Libertarians and "Progressives" are just a bunch of hippies that want to smoke pot and not get busted. So what's the solution?

Put "none of the above" on the ballot. If none of the above gets more votes than the assclowns they put on the ballot, they have to start all over again with all new assclowns. We just keep doing that until we find sane, competent and balanced people, that have the public interests rather than corporate lobby interests in mind. This will never happen.

[lohphat]

Apologies if I misread your previous post enki. A return of real journalists, who do the job that wikileaks is doing, like they're supposed to, would be a start. But the same corporations that own the politicians own the media of course, and they're too busy tearing the country apart with partisan hatred, to give us a common enemy, so we'll vote these crooks back into office.

[Baker]

We just keep doing that until we find sane, competent and balanced people, that have the public interests rather than corporate lobby interests in mind. This will never happen.

Sure it will. The debt depowers the government and creates a situation where actual true interests of proper government must be met.

This reality gets increasingly obvious every day. It also brings home the need for good government to citizens in a rude and unwanted way, who discover that it is in their vital interests to have an interest in government.

The modern government culture of big spending originated in the 1960s when the USA had a whopping 52% of world GDP due to Europe being in reconstruction and Asia being a big rice field. You cannot have an unlimited spending attitude and a careless indifference to efficiency and accountability in government forever.

The current conditions can be fixed. It just takes a will to fix them. And the United States government and a larger chunk of the citizens aren't used to the idea that tough choices have to be made and that a "do nothing and let inertia take its course" isn't going to work.

But humans are very adaptable (people used to build log cabins with more primitive tools and hunt bears with muskets so that hard work mentality is still there somewhere) and it'll happen. It will just be very uncomfortable for several years while this change in attitude and culture is taking place.

Greece is in the beginning of it. Ireland is dealing with it. The US is going to have to adapt ...

Apologies if I misread your previous post enki. A return of real journalists, who do the job that wikileaks is doing, like they're supposed to, would be a start.

Good point. Nixon was exposed by Woodward and Bernstein. Our current administration is doing a very good Nixon impersonation in their reaction to all of this.

[StatiC]

But humans are very adaptable (people used to build log cabins with more primitive tools and hunt bears with muskets so that hard work mentality is still there somewhere) and it'll happen. It will just be very uncomfortable for several years while this change in attitude and culture is taking place.

Greece is in the beginning of it. Ireland is dealing with it. The US is going to have to adapt ...

do you mean what Americans are going through is culture shock or hard work times ahead ? i cant fig out the meaning, cause if you do mean culture shock than thats a big truth, i went through a massive culture shock moving to Israel in 03', and it was bs, but ya i adapted, even tho it was huge bs... if you guys in the states are going through culture shock than thats a hard one... im still trying to become Canadian again after a year of being back... But if its a hard work era ahead, then thats just as hard, but when its both, then damn.... i feel for Americans, thats like moving to Israel....

[AAA]

i feel for Americans, thats like moving to Israel....

Hey you get on a server now!!! or anybody!!


GG

[Baker]

do you mean what Americans are going through is culture shock or hard work times ahead ? i cant fig out the meaning, cause if you do mean culture shock than thats a big truth

Both.

1) In the 1960s, the USA with a newly found enormous amount of wealth -- we were a massive exporter at the time -- shifted to a consumer culture.
2) By the 1970s, we were a net importer with a trade deficit. The trade deficit kept growing.
3) In 1986, we became a net importer of oil.
4) By the 1990s, with Most Favored Nation trade status for China and later NAFTA, we further fueled the influx of cheap foreign goods. We began outsourcing and corporations moved factories abroad at a rapid rate replacing it with a large service based economy.
5) In the mid-1990s, multinational banks were effectively legalized. Prior to this, there were not even interstate banks in most states!
6) Around 2000, the "brilliant" idea of a consumer economy fueled by mortgage equity was in full force. Why not mortgage the full value of a home and spend, spend, spend! Nevermind that you now have no equity and are 1 payment from default. "Real estate" value always rises! [Until 2008 and later ...]

2008 ... USA consumer credit is dealt a massive blow by the financial crisis. No more consumer credit. Ok .... we'll shift to government credit! Massive unemployment benefits, spending $1.5 trillion on bank bailouts, buying General Motors, huge $1 trillion stimulus measures.

2010: Ut oh! The world might not end up lending the US government any more money!

Government credit = on the brink.
Consumer credit = wrecked in 2008.
Real Estate value = falling.
Trade deficit = huge.
Unemployment = big; job growth = none.

So ... why am I optimistic about the USA after the next decade or so? The solutions to the problems in the USA are easy to solve, but at this time are absolutely politically impossible.

The United States has massive natural resources only surpassed by Canada and Russia except we aren't frozen tundra. Steel, agricultural land, water, every mineral you can name, labor, land, textile production land, hundreds of years of coal, enough oil that if we didn't waste so damn much of it we wouldn't need to import any, the nuclear power plant option.

We don't have to import anything. It can all be built domestically. ... If we decided to do that. We will only decide to do that once it becomes clear we have to. Trade treaties will have to be canceled, tariffs enacted, trade barriers restored. It is politically impossible in 2010. Multinational corporations have to big of a hold over our political system. But as the economic malaise continues, as the debt increases, eventually it will happen.

A country with no job base and no domestic production doesn't have anything to tax! Yet there is plenty of labor available and massive natural resources available. It is quite silly really, but it will take a few years for the thinking to reach that point. And the price of products will increase. Right now the mentality is wait for an easy solution or play around with stimulus. You can't solve a trade imbalance with tax policy or stimulus or monetary policy. But they will try! No one wants to make tough choices until the USA is in a situation like Greece or Ireland ... and our government will wait until then to "get real".

[Phenom]

One question.

Why does the title say "wikileaks don't download"?

Its all over the news why shouldn't I download it? Technically its not Classified anymore

[ninjamonkeyz]

One question.

Why does the title say "wikileaks don't download"?

Its all over the news why shouldn't I download it? Technically its not Classified anymore

makes it sound more controversial

[AAA]

makes it sound more controversial

LoL I like it.

[StatiC]

We don't have to import anything. It can all be built domestically. ... If we decided to do that. We will only decide to do that once it becomes clear we have to. Trade treaties will have to be canceled, tariffs enacted, trade barriers restored. It is politically impossible in 2010. Multinational corporations have to big of a hold over our political system. But as the economic malaise continues, as the debt increases, eventually it will happen.

A country with no job base and no domestic production doesn't have anything to tax! Yet there is plenty of labor available and massive natural resources available. It is quite silly really, but it will take a few years for the thinking to reach that point. And the price of products will increase. Right now the mentality is wait for an easy solution or play around with stimulus. You can't solve a trade imbalance with tax policy or stimulus or monetary policy. But they will try! No one wants to make tough choices until the USA is in a situation like Greece or Ireland ... and our government will wait until then to "get real".

when technology bumped up a lil bit the robots came in and did all of ppLs work on assembly lines and such, employers found ways to cut costs, and gave jobs to young unskilled kids cause they would do the work for cheap.
Now if the business owner, factory owner, engineer, and so on, all want to cut back on their earnings a little bit then shit could get done, u gotta pay your workers well if their skilled, but there have to be ppl working and not robots... even tho a robot can do a hell of a weld !

and then theres fucking outsourcing....

[Mindf!3ldzX]

I lived the "lose your job" to oursourcing to mexico. Reynosa Mexico took over 90% of the the "Rack and Pinion" steering gear's that was manufactured in a rural small town called Atkins,VA.

Wife dealt with the same shit as well,with same company. Oh the joy's of "The Bottom Line"