Barack Obama confirmed the death of Al-Qaida leader Oussama Ben laden

[bFeared]

Wow. Praise be Allah.



Again. Fuk you.

You mad, bro?

[metchsteekle]

Bible = damn good fiction

[Ed Hill]

Fuk fukity fuk fuk fuk

[Rampage]

Wow. Praise be Allah.



Again. Fuk you.

You're welcome to rebuttal his views, but don't personally attack him.

[Baker]

Was bin Laden really unarmed?

Armed? Unarmed?

Isn't Osama the one guy who really isn't worth any additional consideration?

The entire stuff you wrote about the Quran is true for the bible as well, and your churches have done the same thing to "infidels".

I'm not particularly religious but I think Western religion such as Christianity and Judaism have had a positive impact on culture over the thousands of years.

Judaism introduced many concepts of law, such as the law applying to all.
Christianity has a big streak of human rights concerns and the concern about caring for fellow humans.

I'm not sure, there is factually much room to call either religion "bad".

On the other hand, Islam is a bit retrograde on several fronts. And it was written by someone who really was not much different than Osama Bin Laden. Which isn't really surprising as Mohammed was kicked out of Mecca and would later come back on conquer it militarily. Which is why there are a ton of Islamic despots that point to the Quran, because the Quran gives a free pass on that, among several other negative things.

I do not think Islam and Western religions can be equated. Not in a rational way.

[LambentHammerBurst]

I myself as bad as it sounds - believe all religions are evil. EVERY religion has hurt or killed many for their beliefs - Christianity included. Why I generally stay out of all religious arguments - which in turn has me staying out of war arguments.

[foq]

I myself as bad as it sounds - believe all religions are evil. EVERY religion has hurt or killed many for their beliefs - Christianity included. Why I generally stay out of all religious arguments - which in turn has me staying out of war arguments.

Right, so Christianity is evil because of what a group of people did in its name hundreds and hundreds of years ago, under the leadership of the Pope, which is a Catholic figurehead.

[LambentHammerBurst]

I didn't just say "Christianity" but "all religions". I see them as evil as they all have done evil themselves.
If I want to just state why I find Christianity evil:
-Anti-Abortion violence
-Anti-Gay Rights violence
-KKK - "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," and believe that "Jesus was the first Klansman."
-Galileo put under house arrest because of his belief of the world is NOT the center but rather the sun - which is correct but he was believed to of been a "suspect of heresy"
-Witch Trials

These are just some examples. However yes - some of those were not lead by the "leaders" of the religion. However they were all done by followers. I was in Catholic schooling from grades 8-12. Don't get me wrong, you are taking what I said very literal. I am merely stating that any and all religions have done too many evil actions for me to even consider following any of them - especially when their actions go AGAINST their beliefs.

As per your point of "under the leadership of the Pope, which is a Catholic figurehead."
-that leaves a scar on that religion, it happened and will not be forgotten. Muslims now have a "scar" due to Bin Ladens actions - without themselves being involved. People are looking down at them daily, even when being born in the USA and being complete citizens. The wife's best friends husband got harassed after 9/1/1 here in CANADA for being Muslim.

[foq]

And we also have the Westboro Baptist Church. You can't lump a whole group of people—a whole religion—into an "evil" category based on what a select amount of people do in its name, or claim to be a member of that group.

I'm pretty sure the easiest of your points to attack there would be the KKK. As we know, Jesus taught the idea of "love your neighbor as you love yourself". The KKK obviously doesn't follow this principle.

How can I attack Islam while defending Christianity, while both religions—no, while people in the name of both religions have both done terribly rotten things, you might ask? The Bible, at least in the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus, teach love and tolerance and such. The Qur'an, as I have said, is very specific with its teachings of violence and deceit, with earlier teachings being peaceful and later teachings being contradictorily violent.

[Baker]

This is gonna be a bit too intellectual for some, but all religions are not equal. Buddhism is quite a peaceful religion, for instance.

I find the idea that equating Christianity --- which strictly is the story of Jesus extending compassion to poor people and the idea of social fairness for those neglected by society and offering the idea that there is hope for redemption for those that have done immoral things -- to a religion like Islam which does provide the justification of violence and in no uncertain terms the oppression of women -- they are not equal and equable.

Not factually, not scientifically and not objectively.

Historically, it was a difficult problem for Pope Urban II to launch the crusades as there are not any passages advocating violence or allowing for war in the Bible. It was his interpretation and the lack of literacy and the social and economic conditions that were factors in this, plus an urgent request for help from Constantinople (The capital of the Eastern Roman Empire and the center of Eastern Orthodox Christians) requesting help to fight off [Muslim] invaders.

Yes, there is an inclination of people to do bad things that use religion as a justification (Hitler, Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, etc.) but those are the exceptions and not the rule. Far easier when your religious texts (Islam) specifically allows immoral acts in the name of a faith (murder of Theo van Gogh).

[Baker]

I won't claim to be a fan of organized religion, so let's get that out of the way. It discourages free thought, among other reasons. Plus I think such things are often corrupted, like some of them are more or less tax-exempt money making machines and not what they claim to be.

I think "group-think" is particularly evil, mostly because there is no thinking. You are told how to think.

Anyways ...

I myself as bad as it sounds - believe all religions are evil. EVERY religion has hurt or killed many for their beliefs ...

Everyone has a set of guiding rules or ways about approaching life that acts as a "best practice".

Religions are in many ways a prepackaged set of "best practices" that usually come with a book, a set of interesting bedtime stories, a main character and a list of rules. If you don't have a religion, you still have a list of rules. In Europe in particular, they tend to use "humanism" as the prepackaged set of "best practices". I wouldn't call it a religion, but it still is a philosophy and a set of "best practices".

Even if you don't have a religion, you are still a human. Humans are flawed. We aim to better and to be more, which is the characteristic of humans that I think it kinda neat.

And to say one "set of rules" is the same as another is an oxymoron and a paradox to begin with. There are "sets of rules" that are better than other "sets of rules". Which is why Western civilization is a hell of a lot better than the rest of the world (today ... you never know in the future).

Jesus was a peacenik hippy advocating non-violence and human rights back before it was cool.

Churches may be evil, they want money and power and control. And individual people can be evil. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that someone like Jesus could be evil or a source of evil, it is almost like saying Gandhi was a source of evil.

[Demiurge]

Your "war on terror" is a propaganda shtick. You gobbled it all up - good boy.

The entire stuff you wrote about the Curran is true for the bible as well, and your churches have done the same thing to "infidels". There is no statute of limitations on murder, so go put the church to the same trial as the Islamists.

I can't take people seriously who believe in "one nation under god" and at the same time are on a "crusade against evil".

I've read the bible cover to cover twice and the new testament countless times, including the non-canonical and apocryphal texts, including the exegetical and hermeneutic apparatus. Christians do not practise the Old Testament, and I'm quite unaware of Jesus advocating and committing injury or murder of anyone whose beliefs were contrary to his own. I invite you to cite an instance of such in support of your claim. And if you cannot, then with intellectual honesty, retract the assertion.

As for the directly bellicose nature of the Koran, I can copiously provide citations, such as:

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:1

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51

"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 8

"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

etc.