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  • Debt vs Gold ?

    So, USA is in dire debt to China. And then I recall there being demands to have witnesses/audits to the entire purported Federal Reserves stash of Gold Bricks!

    So I went statistic finding...


    Originally posted by Wiki Answers
    As of today, April 2, 2010, gold is $1,118.45 per troy ounce. One pound of gold is worth $16,310.37 today.

    Gold is measured in Troy ounces. However, the typical "pound" is not a troy measurement (it is technically called an Avoirdupois pound -- a typical American pound). There are ~14.583 Troy ounces in one American (Avoirdupois) pound.

    So to find the current value of of one pound of gold, simply multiply 14.583 times the current price of gold (look at goldprice.com for a current valuation).

    Weighing gold by the pound is not a typical measurement, but if you are, congratulations!
    So that means

    2000 pounds in 1 Ton, and according to Gold Reserve under Wikipedia the USA has a reserve of 8,133 TONS of Gold,and for roundings sake I lob off the ,133 portion. running with those number the US Federal Reserve has in excess of 16,000,000 pounds of gold. Going by the math (once again,lobbing off the extra numbers and creating a "rounded down" estimated value of total gold held by US Federal Reserve

    16,000,000LBS of Gold x $16,000 value per Pound = $256,000,000,000 in pure Gold Value alone.

    And here I thought we was sitting on some epic amount of gold..... FOK?

    The full numbers crunched in calculator come to 265,298,460,000. If the math is correct?

    Sources are

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
    How much is gold per pound
    Gold Price
    Let me google that for you
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  • #2
    Originally posted by Mindf!3ldzX View Post
    So, USA is in dire debt to China.
    Are we?

    I thought the Federal Reserve just printed more money and bought existing debt with it.

    With in the long-run devalues everything you own, but we are no way at China's mercy because our currency is at the whim of the US federal government.

    And what's special about gold? Teh shiny? There isn't enough gold in the world today to use as a currency. And it is better used in electronics and manufacturing where it is sometimes needed.

    [I'm not defending the questionable decisions this country makes all the time, economically. I'm just saying they do, in fact, "print" more money and then buy debt with in. Kinda silly, but that's what they do as I understand it.]

    Greece and Portugal can't do this because of the Euro. They can't arbitrarily create more fiat currency like they could with their own currency (Greek drachmas in the case of Greece) prior to adopting the Euro. This may largely be responsible for Greece being in a nearly impossible situation.
    Last edited by Baker; 07-24-2012, 10:10 PM.
    Quakeone.com - Being exactly one-half good and one-half evil has advantages. When a portal opens to the antimatter universe, my opposite is just me with a goatee.

    So while you guys all have to fight your anti-matter counterparts, me and my evil twin will be drinking a beer laughing at you guys ...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Baker View Post
      Are we?

      I thought the Federal Reserve just printed more money and bought existing debt with it.

      With in the long-run devalues everything you own, but we are no way at China's mercy because our currency is at the whim of the US federal government.

      And what's special about gold? Teh shiny? There isn't enough gold in the world today to use as a currency. And it is better used in electronics and manufacturing where it is sometimes needed.
      The goverment is not supposed to have an equal amount of Gold to back the Printer Paper money,no?

      Originally posted by wikipedia
      A gold reserve is the gold held by a central bank or nation intended as a store of value and as a guarantee to redeem promises to pay depositors, note holders (e.g., paper money), or trading peers, or to secure a currency.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mindf!3ldzX View Post
        The goverment is not supposed to have an equal amount of Gold to back the Printer Paper money,no?
        The US dropped to gold standard in 1971 during the Nixon administration.

        So our money isn't backed by anything except the confidence someone has in our government.

        Before you think, "well that ought to be zero" ... would you be happy to find an envelope filled with $100 bills? I think I would.
        Quakeone.com - Being exactly one-half good and one-half evil has advantages. When a portal opens to the antimatter universe, my opposite is just me with a goatee.

        So while you guys all have to fight your anti-matter counterparts, me and my evil twin will be drinking a beer laughing at you guys ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Although we do print tons of money, most of our money is manufactured through the fractional reserve method of "banking". lol...

          It's been 99 years since the implementation of the federal reserve system in the U.S... can you guys guess by what percent our currency has devalued since then?
          Last edited by KillPixel; 07-24-2012, 11:14 PM.
          www.youtube.com/user/KillPixel

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          • #6
            Reckon it depends on who's "Magically" finding envelopes stuffed with fn $100 bills eh???
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mindf!3ldzX View Post
              Reckon it depends on who's "Magically" finding envelopes stuffed with fn $100 bills eh???
              It's not me, but if you know where I can find any let me know
              Quakeone.com - Being exactly one-half good and one-half evil has advantages. When a portal opens to the antimatter universe, my opposite is just me with a goatee.

              So while you guys all have to fight your anti-matter counterparts, me and my evil twin will be drinking a beer laughing at you guys ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Baker View Post
                It's not me, but if you know where I can find any let me know
                I think you need a huge failing Automotive Buisness or a huge failing over-inflated failing Bank to find them.
                Want to get into playing Quake again? Click here for the Multiplayer-Startup kit! laissez bon temps rouler!

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                • #9
                  you missed one

                  Originally posted by Mindf!3ldzX View Post
                  I think you need a huge failing Automotive Buisness or a huge failing over-inflated failing Bank to find them.
                  you forgot one. the "go green" company loans to the tune of $535 million for solyndra solar panel company. there's a bunch of those solar companies that got huge loans now they are bankrupt & attending $38,000 per plate fundraisers for the dems.

                  they want us to turn off our lights & pee in the dark while they all jet around the country to attend these high flutin parties.

                  Solyndra figures attend swanky Obama fundraiser

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the fun thing about having a lot of gold as a reserve is that you depend very much upon the value of gold.
                    generally the value of gold has been fairly stable as its hard to find it in large quantities anywhere.
                    in fact, the biggest source of gold on the market would be a country in major financial difficulty trying to sell off their gold... If the US were to actually sell any of that gold, they'd devalue the price of gold quite significantly such that the bulk of it would be massively undervalued. Selling in bulk is never a good thing.
                    That's how I see it, anyway.

                    As Baker says, the US controls the value of the dollar, the chineese buying lots of dollars is more to prop up the US economy and weaken their own, which makes lots and lots of sense for a mass exporter. Doing so gives more of their population jobs, which is a good thing, for them.
                    The US can just ramp up inflation to devalue however many dollars the chineese own. Of course, that would ruin the perception of US economy worldwide.
                    Which is kinda why the euro isn't doing as badly as it should be doing. Too many countries for political games to work too well. Even with half those countries now basically bankrupt the other nations retain a strong enough economy to avoid any major sell-offs towards a currency where a single nation has sole control. Sure, investers are worried, but they're also worried about the US and their national-dept-cap political games.

                    No nation has enough reserve to cover their entire economy. Economy is based upon potential rather than actual wealth. Gold reserve increases the perception of that potential more so than its current wealth.
                    Also, never trust a banker. Nor a politition. And certainly never a minister of finance. Or a lawyer unless you're paying them lots. But mneh.
                    Some Game Thing

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                    • #11
                      ^^ Hehe, we got Spike to comment on a non-engine topic.

                      Score!!

                      Originally posted by Spike View Post
                      Of course, that would ruin the perception of US economy worldwide.
                      It is my understanding the primary backing of the US dollar is the fact that US taxes have to paid in it. Confidence, no confidence ... in a way this causes it to matter to some degree, regardless of confidence level.

                      Originally posted by Spike View Post
                      Which is kinda why the euro isn't doing as badly as it should be doing. Too many countries for political games to work too well. Even with half those countries now basically bankrupt the other nations retain a strong enough economy to avoid any major sell-offs towards a currency where a single nation has sole control. Sure, investers are worried, but they're also worried about the US and their national-dept-cap political games.
                      In some ways, what is happening to Greece and Spain and some of the other EU countries is cannibalistic.

                      Greece doesn't actually have a way out of their mess. Not a viable way. Cuts only can go so far after you've made a mountain of mistakes.

                      And the voters of Iceland did something hilarious, they rejected the entire concept that their citizens were responsible for financially backing the default of a bank to foreign creditors.
                      Last edited by Baker; 07-25-2012, 02:00 AM.
                      Quakeone.com - Being exactly one-half good and one-half evil has advantages. When a portal opens to the antimatter universe, my opposite is just me with a goatee.

                      So while you guys all have to fight your anti-matter counterparts, me and my evil twin will be drinking a beer laughing at you guys ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Our money is not valued for anything. Welcome to the United Undervalued States.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The federal reserve is not a government agency,it is a private bank.
                          The nations gold reserve is in fort knox and does not belong to the federal reserve.JFK told the fed to piss off and printed US currency on red paper and is all locked up to never see the light of day.
                          Coincidence he was assassinated?
                          WARNING
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bluntz View Post
                            The federal reserve is not a government agency, it is a private bank.
                            Um ... ok. If it is a "private bank", them someone owns it [if so, who exactly is this?]. Or it isn't a private bank bank and is part of the US government.
                            Quakeone.com - Being exactly one-half good and one-half evil has advantages. When a portal opens to the antimatter universe, my opposite is just me with a goatee.

                            So while you guys all have to fight your anti-matter counterparts, me and my evil twin will be drinking a beer laughing at you guys ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Fed admits to being a private group of 12 banks

                              Um ... ok. If it is a "private bank", them someone owns it [if so, who exactly is this?]. Or it isn't a private bank bank and is part of the US government.

                              The Federal Reserve ADMITS that Its 12 Banks Are PRIVATE - Not Government - Entities → Washingtons Blog
                              As the long-time Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee (Charles McFadden) said on June 10, 1932:

                              Some people think that the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies ....
                              Similarly, the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) - often called the "central banks' central bank", as it coordinates transactions between central banks, and which is the entity determining the level of reserves banks are required to keep worldwide - is itself owned by the central banks of the world.

                              As Spiegel reported in 2009:

                              The BIS is a closed organization owned by the 55 central banks. The heads of these central banks travel to the Basel headquarters once every two months, and the General Meeting, the BIS's supreme executive body, takes place once a year.

                              In, other words, the private banks own the Fed (and most other central banks), and the central banks - in turn - own BIS, the global bank regulator.

                              Interestingly, Spiegel points out that BIS is largely immune from regulation, oversight or taxes:
                              WARNING
                              May be too intense for some viewers.
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