Digital foundry - Quake 2 on Xbox 360.

[Baker]

Pretty much all new single player maps require Quakespasm

1) There isn't a single map release that requires Quakespasm.
2) No such thing can exist.

And Quakespasm has 0.000000 unique mapping features.

*A map might require BSP2 (several support this)
*A map might want alpha textures using the Remake Quake way (4 or 5 engines)

There is no such thing as a release that requires Quakespasm, you couldn't make such a thing if you tried.

As an example, Rubicon Rumble works in Mark V beta and Qbisms engine (and it may run in the Remake Quake engine).

[golden_boy]

OK Baker, you're right.

Most maps now *recommend* Quakespasm (or another fitzquake-vanillaish-extendedmapping engine) and it offers a few non-unique extended map features.

Better?

[Adam]

Well, I don't think the N64 version is bad in its own way, but the fact that they were able to get almost better graphics on PSX, with better controls, and had 3D models (N64 version only had sprites) makes it better. It feels like they tried with the PSX version, and the N64 version seems half assed at least to me.

Come on, that's just not true.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEQNu0jqhr4[/ame]

N64 Quake 2 is all 3d and doesn't use sprites for enemies and both Psx & N64 controls utilised analogue controls. They could be set the same way, e.g. dpad/leftstick for movement, analogue/rightstick for aiming.

They are both great versions, I like them both for their own reasons.
After playing through PC Q2, I guess that I have a soft spot for the N64 version because it is like having a new story in the Q2 universe, rather than a straight port.

I also like Quake for the Saturn which doesn't support analogue look even though I have the Nights controller. That just shows my weakness for old gaming hardware and what I am willing to put up with to play it.

@GB & B,
Talking about Quakespasm, there is a reason why people recommend it over DP though, right? You might not be able to make a QS only mod but it must do something that DP doesn't do, or at least as well as, maybe?

[Baker]

OK Baker, you're right.

Most maps now *recommend* Quakespasm (or another fitzquake-vanillaish-extendedmapping engine) and it offers a few non-unique extended map features.

Better?

Very much so

(Some of these guys don't know what a Vore is or what the Wind Tunnels are and they'll believe what you say.)

[Baker]

@GB & B,
Talking about Quakespasm, there is a reason why people recommend it over DP though, right? You might not be able to make a QS only mod but it must do something that DP doesn't do, or at least as well as, maybe?

DarkPlaces is NOT compatible with the physics of Quake as it was released.

And to a smaller degree, possibly not the networking either.

Almost every other engine is compatible with both.

This means if you run something that isn't standard Quake and has any level of complexity and doesn't specifically target DarkPlaces, DarkPlaces is very likely to fail.

DarkPlaces has different physics, different collisions, different lighting.

So you play a complex level, maybe the key you are looking for fell out of the map. Maybe the event that allows forward progress in a map never happens because X didn't touch Y. Etc, etc.

Quakespasm is a faithful engine and doesn't have those problems. Quakespasm sure isn't perfect from my perspective (as a total Quake engine) but as a single player engine it might as well be perfect.

And the guys that work on Quakespasm want it work right with the entire body of work of standard Quake. (Which isn't that hard to do, really).

DarkPlaces is more of a vision of what a "perfect" Quake-based engine might look like. Better everything. At the expense of compatibility.

If you want advanced functionality, DarkPlaces has that.

But it isn't actually backwards compatible to Quake. There are countless mods like Travail it can't run right, and that includes most of the highest quality single player works out there.

DarkPlaces didn't actually cause this problem, it was never targeting authentic old-skool single player releases. It was more intended for targeting people who wanted to make forward-looking things like Nexuiz or Xonotic or Capsized or total conversions.

[Adam]

Ok,
DP is not as Quake compatible as the other engines but good for the extra shiny stuff.
Got it, thanks for the info.

[Baker]

As just one example of different behavior, on the map Metal Monstrocity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqXbQIqc3Fo

There is a soldier watching across a bridge you can remove by pressing a button.

If you kill the soldier on the bridge, then shoot the button retracting the bridge:
1) In Quake, the soldier's dead body will be floating in mid-air.
2) In DarkPlaces, when the bridge is retracted, the dead body falls into the void.

DarkPlaces has the better behavior because a corpse floating in mid-air on a missing bridge is rather silly.

However, the sum total of these little differences results in a littany of "I'm an playing X and the final boss never appears" or "I am playing Y and the door won't open".