HEXEN II community work and discussion

[Seven]

Thank you for your answers inkub0.

Quake (ID1) has 542 textures according to the excel file. Some of them are double (different name, same texture).
So I already thought, that Hexen 2 has something similar.
If its just 300 its a piece of cake. *joking*

Converting jpg into tga can be done via batch file and is done via minutes.
(in my understanding)
Does UQE supports tga ?

Like LordHavoc said: tga loads faster and should be preferred.

Thank you for your effort to make this game look better.

Best wishes,
Seven

[golden_boy]

spoike says hexen 2 sp should work in FTE, so should external textures if they use a sane path and name scheme.

The textures inside of BSP files are the originals - Q1 bsps store their textures inside themselves, instead of using external ones. Practically all replacement textures in Quake are external.

[inkub0]

Ok i tried the very latest version of FTEQuake...
It works, but is very very very unstable... it crashed several times.

BUT... bump mapping! =)

a question for everybody: how to name the bump map to load it in FTEquake?

[Seven]

Thank you very much for your support golden_boy.

I think, that Hexen 2 stores their textures as well inside the bsp (just like Quake does).
Cause its the same engine right ?

If so, inkub0 can use Pakscape to open up the xxx.pak files and open Hexen 2 level bsp´s with TexMex.
Similar to Quake.
In this way you can see (TexMex gives you the texture picture AND name)
which textures are used in this map.


golden_boy:
1.) If FTE supports Hexen 2 SP, it would be interesting, if the external "high res" textures must be placed in the same folder as in UQE (HEXEN2/DATA1/textures/). And can keep the same name sheme.
2.) Can TexMex also exchange textures ?
I mean: Open the bsp file with TexMex and put the high res textures into texmex and save the bsp file out ?
This is the way inkub0 explains it for Hammer of Thyrion.


But, to be honest inkub0:
Lets first finish the textures themselves, before going to normals.
Otherwise there will be no end
I think its also smart to use an engine, specially made for Hexen 2 and Mission Pack
that runs robust, than to use another one to only have normals.

Good night folks.
Seven

[inkub0]

But, to be honest inkub0:
Lets first finish the textures themselves, before going to normals.
Otherwise there will be no end
I think its also smart to use an engine, specially made for Hexen 2 and Mission Pack
that runs robust, than to use another one (crashing and crashing) to only have normals.

Good night folks.
Seven

You are Right, Seven, i'll use UQE for now. In future i'll transport the texmap on FTE to bump map/normal map everything...
The good thing is that FTE loads the same UQE's directory... no change needed. It's a pity for Hammer of Thyrion but this engine doesnt support /data1/textures/ folder

Uhmm TeXMeX is new for me... i used Quark to edit BSP levels and see textures inside...

[golden_boy]

2.) Can TexMex also exchange textures ?
I mean: Open the bsp file with TexMex and put the high res textures into texmex and save the bsp file out ?
This is the way inkub0 explains it for Hammer of Thyrion.

Nooo!

Replacement textures should not go into BSPs :-) They go into their own folder.

Only the original 8 bit textures are stored in the BSPs. For replacements, external storage is the sane way.

And I'm pretty sure the HoT folks would be willing to add external texture support if asked.

[inkub0]

...so maybe just ask the HoT guys if they'll add support for them? I think sezero of Quakespasm also does some coding for HoT, right, so I guess it can be done.

Yes, interesting! is sezero or Quakespasm a friend of yours? can you show this thread to them?

Bye
Inkub0

[Seven]

Hello inkub0,

I dont know much about normal textures, but did you notice this:

1.) This is taken from UQE documentation (explaining bump mapping):

CVAR: gl_bumpmap_dot3 [0 or 1] (saving) : (GL)
Generates and blends a DOT3 bumpmap texture onto any loaded texture.
For best results, use with high-rez external textures,
since it doesn't render satisfactory results on the game's already low-rez textures.
Default: 0

1.) This is a screenshot from UQE screenshots page (where you see the bump mapping):
Unofficial Quake Engine screenshot

I know, this engine feature is not what you mean, when you speak about real "normal textures",
but did you try the effect in game ?
It seems to add dot3 bump mapping to ALL textures in the map.
On the screen it looks quite promising.


Another thing:
There are also some High Res model skins (example: for tome of power Model, mana model, health model, ...):
http://jurajstyk.host.sk/download.htm
(look below "Hexen II Data")
This is the site, where I also got the textures (we speak about it yesterday) from...

, ,


LIT files are not supported in UQE.

Regards,
Seven

[Seven]

Important Info for inkub0 + golden_boy:

Concerning:
Hammer of Thyrion supporting External Textures in a simple folder !

I searched through the complete "Development Progress Documentation" and found this:

2007-04-16: added new cvar r_texture_external : whether to use external textures. defaults to 0.


EDITED
Unfortunately, HOT only supports .wal external texture format
/EDITED


After testing those 2 engines, I found that Hammer of Thyrion
is the much better way to go compared to UQE. Due to many reasons:
- adjustability (effects, hud, resolutions, shadow)
- visuals (UQE only supports bloom in 1024x768 )
- LIT support (only supported in HOT) (all LIT files for H2 + MP are available on HOT homepage)
- regular updates


@ inkub0

due to the fact, that I dont know for which level you made the most
High Res Textures already (for testing purpose). Can you please tell me,
so that I can test the cvar r_texture_external in Hammer of Thyrion.
Or could you please test it, cause you know exactly on which texture to look

Thank you.
Seven

[golden_boy]

FTE runs Hexen 2 pretty well for me, using the stable builds from here:

Index of /moodles

There are a couple niggles though, since FTE is sometimes too advanced to keep up with itself :-P

Nice things are that FTE can load a skybox, and replacement textures, and all the usual stuff you're used to from Quake.

It's true that I'd usually suggest Hammer of Thyrion, though. I have mailed them, but they don't seem very excited about replacement textures.

[golden_boy]

r_texture_external in Hammer of Thyrion can only load external .wal textures, not .jpg or .tga.

I don't think .wal is a high resolution texture format. It's a modification of Quake2's texture format - I don't think you can load 24 bit images like that.

The .jpgs load fine in FTE; I took a look at them ingame.

Some, like the wood textures, are pretty good. Some stone texes are also good.

The grass is too extreme IMO - the green is really bright. Grass texture also doesn't tile well in some cases.

The textiles need work, like the flags for example.

The bumpmapping effect on some of those floors is just too extreme.

The main wall texture (Barbican etc), those large blocks, could also need some work since you'll be seeing that texture very often in the game.

It's a good start though. Keep doing it!

[Seven]

Thank you for clarification golden_boy.

This brings my feets down to earth again...
I thought I found the solution in bringing external textures to HOT.
But it only brought ".wal" files to HOT....

I really dont know what the benefit of only using ".wal" files is for HOT.
There must be some deeper sense in this cvar: r_texture_external

I guess we are very close to the solution.
Really hoping, that you will receive a reply from the devs of HOT.
And they will hopefully tell us the secret
I didnt find an email adress from them. Only forum.

Please keep us uptodate golden_boy.
Thank you very much for your effort.

I will take a look to your FTE link. The official file (found on FTE page) is much older.


@ inkub0,

Please keep on doing your nice work.
I really like it.

Thanks again,
Seven

[inkub0]

Some, like the wood textures, are pretty good. Some stone texes are also good.

Thanks

The grass is too extreme IMO - the green is really bright. Grass texture also doesn't tile well in some cases.

Grass texture doesnt tile well in the original Hexen II too hehe

The textiles need work, like the flags for example.

The problem: i'm not an artist, but a graphic
and... some flags have black space that is really ugly

The bumpmapping effect on some of those floors is just too extreme.

There is no bump mapping in my textures, and the automatic bump mapping in FTE sucks

The main wall texture (Barbican etc), those large blocks, could also need some work since you'll be seeing that texture very often in the game.

i'll change it. I want to work hard on that texture... all barbican have it!

@ SEVEN
demo1 os obviously the more texturised


look at this, is it good ?

[golden_boy]

Yes, it is!

By bumpmapping effect I mean this:

http://www.colapesceprimo.net/immagini/shots/shot06.jpg

It looks like the pic went through a bumpmapping filter in photoshop or something. It would look better if the parts between the stones weren't so deep. The lighting on the stones is also problematic, since the game obviously does its own lighting :-P

That sort of thing (deep reliefs, either in the picture itself or via bumpmapping / normal maps in the game) only really works in a game that has realtime world lighting, like DOOM3. Which Hexen 2 doesn't have / need.

[inkub0]

Unfortunately, that texture is only a photo with a bad light angle creating ugly shadows
i like that floor but, i know, i have to work on it!