HEXEN II community work and discussion

[Mathuzzz]

Or letīs make Hexen 2 conversion for Quake.
How difficult would be to make all the classes, weapons, artifacts etc...?
I know very little about Quake/Hexen 2 coding, even though I managed to create very simple monster in Quake

[golden_boy]

Adding BSP2 support to Hexen 2 would be easier for someone who can program.

For everybody else, yeah, converting the H2 monsters to IQM (or even to Quake MDL) and probably using DP/FTE might be easiest...

[Spike]

a nightmare. especially as you'd need to hack the engine etc for the hud, class selection, etc... If you want to run it in a quake engine, you can just run it in fte, problem solved, except that's not the point.
the point with bsp2 is that its _just_ a few bigger datatypes. you don't loose any of the feel of the game that you would from making it say q3bsp, and the only real work required to support it is to change a load of shorts to ints/floats, and add some sort of loader to convert legacy bsps to the new version (two bsp loaders that are 100% identical other than the data types involved). So much less work than porting hexen2 to quake and then fixing all the bugs that result...

[golden_boy]

The HUD and class selection could be done in CSQC, and prettier. For the gamecode, RMQ already has most of the required features I would think.

But yeah, it wouldn't be the same game. And it would be quite a crazy thing to do in the first place.

[Mathuzzz]

As I mentioned Hexen 1, there is new model pack released, containing stunning weapons for Mage. Now when I look at all the brilliant particle effects, Hexen 2 weapons pale in comparison. Is it possible with available engines to create such particle effects?

http://www.dengine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1145

[golden_boy]

Quake engines? FTE has a particle system that allows you to do all kinds of things. DP has particlefonts for example, too. The Doom 3 engine has great particles.

With Hexen 1, perhaps look into ZDoom, which is an advanced Doom 1 engine and I think it plays Hexen 1 as well, though I'm not sure.

[talisa]

yeah Zdoom can run both heretic and hexen

[Mathuzzz]

What I meant was whether I can enrich Hexen 2 weapons with some nice looking particle effects with available engines?

[golden_boy]

FTE runs Hexen 2 and has a particle system, so that would be possible. I'm not sure about other H2 engines. Here's a bit of a log where Spike talks about FTE particles:

03:29 <Spoike> the console command r_exportbuiltinparticles will write out a few .cfg files
03:29 <Spoike> can can then just exec them directly in order to test them
03:30 <Spoike> but the proper way to use them is to set r_particledesc $FOO and put them as quake/$GAMEDIR/particles/$FOO.cfg
03:32 <Spoike> note that 'built-in' effects cannot be loaded from the filesystem as a cheat prevention measure (actually, I can relax that a bit, its just a little lazy)
03:32 <Spoike> so if you load them via that cvar, you'll need to rename them first

I use FTE particles in SJ, so far I made rain (hurrah). Basically you need to fire off a TE_something effect in the QC, and make a custom particle to suit it!

Try the different particle settings FTE comes with (they work in Quake at least, not sure about H2).

The FTE wiki also has something about it:

http://www.fteqw.com/wiki/index.php?...edParticleSets

erm, this seems to be the more relevant part of the wiki:

http://www.fteqw.com/wiki/index.php?title=R_part

[Seven]

Hello Mathuzzz,

Veirdoīs Mage weapon pack was designed and developed for the Doomsday engine.
Veirdo is a professional and works in gamedev industry as vfx artist.
Particle effects and dynamic simulations are his everyday duty.
So, dont expect it to be too easy to create effects like he did...

The Doomsday engine and Spikeīs FTE engine use a basically similar way of creating particles and bringing them into the game.
- You have the predefined game effects which you can replace/edit
- You can create totally custom/new efects names and call them at specific situations
- You can use as many different particle textures as you want.
- ...

Especially the last point makes FTE and Doomsday superior to Darkplaces particles system, as you can only use 64 - 1 = 63 textures in DP. 63 is an awefully small amount, if one is "effect-hungry" like you are (and others in this forum )


Haze is/was a real master in creating FTE particle effects.
Spike linked his work here recently.
If you are like me (I need examples to learn/study new things) you will take a look at his work and see and understand how it works. The linked WIKI will do the rest


Back to Veirdoīs effects:
Dont let them confuse you, he mixed texture particles together with real small models and light effects.
The ice shards and other small things are real models.
You can do this of course in FTE too, but this would need some "QC" edits (if you can call Hexen2 mechanics "QC"...).

But you are absolutely correct:
I never saw such beautiful particle effects in a Quake-type game of this age before.
But no wonder, Veirdo is a professional vfx artist and works with this stuff everyday


Doomsday is such an advanced engine and it is also developed regularly.
It can stand in 1 line with the Quake engines FTE and DP in this manner.

Have fun creating particles for your weapons.
Seven

[Spike]

you can find fte's built-in particle scripts here: FTE QuakeWorld / Code / [r4417] /trunk/engine/partcfgs (inside h2part.cfg, for the hexen2-specific ones)
I tried using namespaces with it (which sidesteps the whole 'select preset' issue), so the effects you replace will need a name like 'h2part.ce_foo' inside your custom particle config and it should override 'ce_foo' inside h2part.cfg.

[Rino]

@Rino
Iīm having a problem with MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES, which is BSP limit. In other words, my map is too big, I will have to either remove most of the details or cut it to pieces.

@ Mathuzzz
Hello, if your map has reached the limit, (a castle with soil I think), you should cut into sectors.
I think Seven has already suggested this, (I'm talking about single player)
Do not remove the details, you can add, then you split it in 2/3 maps.

Between one slice and the other, you may create a changelevel, for example, the portal main entrance of the castle, so as to divide the outer area, from the inner zone, for example, map1 outdoor area all, with only perimeter walls castle, and the"drawbridge" with changelevel, entry to map2 and return.
You can delete the entire interior, rooms, etc., lightening the BSP.
In map2 you can delete all the exterior (soil, trees, etc.), you can keep the main door from the inside (where you will appear from changelevel of map1).

At this point if the BSP works, it could be a solution, otherwise divide in planes (or in rooms, groups), the internal area, with other changelevel, map2 to map3 and vice versa, as if you're thinking about the architecture of a house,
example, ground floor, first floor etc..

Naturally, your map will need to organize it in a different way, from how it is made currently.
There will be delays in loading map (as they have already said) in singleplayer is not big problem.

I hope I have helped,
when you're ready I'd be curious to see some shot, good mapping!

I greet all
Rino

[Mathuzzz]

@ Rino
If I will ever be able to run my map, then I will make some screenshots . Unfortunately, my last two days of removing brushwork and covering all the remaining brushwork in clip brushes didnīt help.

EDIT
Great! I finally managed to kill the error for now.

I found large amount of useful models, so I was thinking I would try to work with them, reducing the number of complicated brushes. However there is one problem. I have to compile them into progs.dat. I tried that last night, but spawn.hc had compile errors, even though I just copied the formula from other decorative entities. Have you ever adding some simple decorative stuff to the game?

[Rino]

@ Mathuzzz

I'm glad that you were able to solve!. : D

Regarding the models, I use the ones in the game, or PoP.

I would hate touch the complex brushes, made by me, to which I have devoted a lot of time and effort, to insert models.

Alternatively I suggest, decrease the polygons, in some areas of the map, where the detail is not necessary, in replacement with use of Textures made ad hoc.

[Mathuzzz]

@ Mathuzzz
I would hate touch the complex brushes, made by me, to which I have devoted a lot of time and effort, to insert models.

Alternatively I suggest, decrease the polygons, in some areas of the map, where the detail is not necessary, in replacement with use of Textures made ad hoc.

What I had in mind were especially environmental models, like rocks, which usually eat a lot of brushes and I mostly had to remove them.