Hexen II egypt map [in progress]

[sj1985]

Hi all. It's nice to see that there is still such an active community for quake engine games. A couple of days ago I began working on my first Hexen II map because there are way too few maps out there for such a geat game.

I'm fairly new to making maps for full 3D games so I could always use some tricks and tips from anybody that has some experience with editing for the quake engine.

I included a couple of screenshots of the map in progress and I'd be glad if someone could provide me with some feedback on how to improve things like textures, detail, lighting, gamaplay, etc. Keep in mind that this is very early progress and things you see in the screenshots like texture alignment, lighting and other things are still subject to change.

[WhiteMagicRaven]

Wow, good to see you interested in hexen2, good luck. ^.^

[Bloodshot]

Looks good so far. It's nice to see another person interested in mapping for Hexen 2, there are so few of those these days. I'm going to continue my maps for hexen 2 soon, but not until i finish my current Quoth map for Q1.

I have a couple of people who are interested in doing a hexen 2 mission pack, but unfortunately only one of them knows how to make a map besides me

May i ask what editor you use to make hexen 2 maps, and what compiling tools?

From what i can see, there's nothing wrong with it so far - may be a lack of detail in the brushwork but you said yourself it's early so that is understandable. Oh and since it's an Egyptian map, you need a lot of cool traps.

Hey sj1985, you wouldn't happen to be sl1982 from the qhimm forums would you?

[sj1985]

@raven: thanks

@Bloodshot: I'm using Quark and the unofficial quake engine compile tools. Finding the right tools for Hexen II is really frustrating because they all seem to have some problems, well at least for me. Do you know alot about the quake engine?

I try to keep my brushwork as clean as possible (by avoiding brush overlapping etc.) Adding water to complex area's seems to be a real pain in the ass. If you don't overlap with other brushes, the water texture isn't seamless anymore. I wonder how the original developers did it...

And no, I'm not the guy from the other forum.

[Mathuzzz]

Cool...I have had some difficulties when I started with Hexen 2 mapping, still there are some things I am not sure about, it took me several months, few wrinkles and few complete reworks of my first map, but my mistake, I was in hurry to do it. How long are you working on it?

I´m also using Quark, uqehexen tools, I think they are the best tools for Hexen 2.

[sj1985]

Cool...I have had some difficulties when I started with Hexen 2 mapping, still there are some things I am not sure about, it took me several months, few wrinkles and few complete reworks of my first map, but my mistake, I was in hurry to do it. How long are you working on it?

I´m also using Quark, uqehexen tools, I think they are the best tools for Hexen 2.

I started a couple of days ago. Let's say I worked about 3 days on it and spent about 2 hours a day. Getting the textures properly aligned takes a long time. Also since this is my first map, I spent quite some time experimenting with shapes, lighting etc. I wonder how long it will take me to get my first door to work

[Bloodshot]

@Bloodshot: I'm using Quark and the unofficial quake engine compile tools. Finding the right tools for Hexen II is really frustrating because they all seem to have some problems, well at least for me. Do you know alot about the quake engine?

I use the same editor for my Quake 1 maps and H2 maps, I use those compilers too because they seem to be the best third party ones available, although vis used to crash for me - oddly, it started working now so i can compile vis in my hexen 2 maps. If you want, there are other compilers here from the Hammer of Thyrion site - Hammer of Thyrion: Hexen II and HexenWorld for Linux, BSD, Unix, Mac OS X and Windows - you can try them out, the downloads page, scroll down to the "hexen2-utils-1.4.3-windows.zip"

I know a good deal about the Quake engine and how things work, partially due to having worked with it for almost a decade. I don't know the language, but I have a better understanding of Quake engine games then probably any other.

I try to keep my brushwork as clean as possible (by avoiding brush overlapping etc.) Adding water to complex area's seems to be a real pain in the ass. If you don't overlap with other brushes, the water texture isn't seamless anymore. I wonder how the original developers did it...

And no, I'm not the guy from the other forum.

Here's 2 tips for water -

1. Don't worry about letting water bleed out of your level - you might think this is bad but ID and Raven did this, they extended a large water brush over certain areas to submerge it, rather then work around complex brushwork. It's actually more efficient this way, as it's less brushwork for the BSP compiler to work with (be careful though, do NOT let water and sky touch - the engine won't allow them to intersect and it will prevent you from compiling). Before i looked at mapsources for ID's Q1 maps I tried to make water fit into every place, and used multiple brushes, which is not the way to do it. (For water, The sloppier the better )

2. For water brushes (this goes for regular brushwork as well) make sure you Ctrl+D to duplicate, then, instead of moving the brush to where you want it - resize it. This keeps the texture the same in relation to the original brush you duplicated from, and it virtually eliminates your texture alignment problems in many situations. Do this all the time for regular brushwork too that you want aligned. Sometimes you might feel like its easier to just move it, but don't - unless its a sky texture - those don't need to be aligned.

I suggest both you guys study the Quake 1 Map sources since you are relatively new to creating the maps. They can help you get a much better understanding of how maps are structured Unfortunately, i didn't have access to the Quake mapsources when i started so i mostly taught myself.

Anyways, here's the link - http://planetromero.com/2006/10/quak...urces-released

[sj1985]

Great, thanks for the help. I understand what you say. I've done some research on bsp and how it works before I started making maps. I always resize brushes because, as you say, it is much easier for alignment. The water was actually the only thing where I had my doubts but I'm glad that's cleared out.

I know in Half-Life you have to intersect water with regular brushes because you can make the water make waves and there's no possible way to do it otherwise.

However, in a couple of egyptian maps I see that there's alot of sand being used in complex area's. Is it ok to do it the same way?
There's this entity called func_wall. Does this allow you to overlap certain world brushes?

[Bloodshot]

There's this entity called func_wall. Does this allow you to overlap certain world brushes?

You can already overlap brushes, due to the way Binary Space Partitioning works. Here is an example

It will take longer to compile though because it has to remove more faces.

I do think if you want to make some bumps in the terrain and such with sand, definitely do it with func_walls for the bumps, but start with a regular sized rectangular brush for the floor. Allow me to explain the importance of func_wall first.

Func_wall is useful for several things - first off, It prevents BSP from applying to it, so since the brush isn't partitioned, It won't take as long to compile. This is useful for when you have problems like my quake map - the brushwork in 1 room is way too complex so when the map is VIS'd it F**ks it up and simply walking into an area will make it occlude half the room (occlusion is NOT supposed to occur while things are visible so that isn't good )

This was remedied by taking some of the more complex brushwork on the walls, and making them one func_wall. Saves time on the BSP, and prevents overloads that cause VIS to freak out.

Shadows are NOT calculated on func walls either. This can be bad if you use them on pillars, or architecture that is protruding out enough to cast a shadow somewhere noticeable, but it is also useful to save time again - to make a small cave in my level i made some complex overlapping brushwork and made them a func_wall, then closed them in a non-func_wall box room. It's harder on the renderer as func_wall's aren't vis'd either, but they save you when a room or an object made of brushwork is too complex.

Also in Hexen 2 - i find func_wall's particularly useful for cool effects - example: you can duplicate a room, flip it upside down, and make the floor a marble texture, and put it in a func_wall that has the translucent spawnflag checked - bam, you got yourself a room with a reflecting marble floor.

Also, i use them to create cool things, like this - i recreated the hexen 1 torch with brushwork in H2. Normally, this is a bitch to compile and is hardly worth the time for just one - but making it a func_wall allows me to make a lot of them.

I still don't recommend making something as complex as what you see though - It is a lot of brushes.

[sj1985]

Awesome. You sure as hell know a great deal about the engine .
I'll take a look at the original quake maps.

Suppose you have an area inside your map. Let's say a stairway. You want it to be partially covered in sand. I'm guessing to avoid complex brushwork you can make the sand overlap a part of the stairway.

Since this is inside the map, I'm guessing the bsp compiler will not cut out the 'sand' that is 'inside' the stair brush, or am I wrong here?

You've been a great help so far. I remember getting really frustrated because I couldn't find a single good guide to making a map with complex brushwork, because I wanted to do it right from the start. All the tutorials I found only covered the very basics, like how to make a square room..

If you're interested maybe we can join forces and make a mappack for H2?

[Bloodshot]

As long as the overlapping sand is touching a part of the ground, the inside will get cut out.

I made a quick example for you.

Say the red is the sand brush


It has several faces, but it is overlapping the steps.

Before being compiled, this is how it looks.


After, it cuts away and it becomes this:


However, if you make the sand a func_wall it will stay like the before image.

If you're interested maybe we can join forces and make a mappack for H2?

Definitely, but first I'd like to finish my Quoth map before i take on real mapping for Hexen 2. Reason being I've been putting off finishing it for quite a while now, and it's about 3/4s done. But after I'm done with it, I'd love to make a map pack for H2. Quality custom single player maps are definitely something Hexen 2 is lacking.

[LambentHammerBurst]

Looking good so far.
Any plans to make it a map for Quake 1? It would fit in greatly with the Dissolution of Eternity (Mission Pack 2) expansion. Could even use the "Guardians" as the boss.

[sj1985]

@Bloodshot: Can't thank you enough for helping me out. Just let me know when you finished your quake map and are ready to start working on H2 again.

@ooppee: if it's not too hard to convert I might do that but for now I'd like to focus on H2.

[WhiteMagicRaven]

Yes you can convert hexen2 map to quake1 a simple converters here
Hexen II
Look for
BSP2MAP v0.12 for Hexen II (22K)
Hexen2Quake .bsp Converter (20K)

[sj1985]

Ok thanks for the links. I'll look into it when the map is done