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  • #16
    Originally posted by shaolin View Post
    Plus, you guys just look silly using the belly hook....hehe
    Yah, they should at least make it come out of your left hand or something.

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    • #17
      I started with the ctf impulse 22 hook, and switched over to the fast hook.

      There were a few servers/mods where you had to alias it yourself:

      alias +hook "impulse 98"
      alias -hook "impulse 97"

      There was one HPB -- back in the halcyon days of 3wave CTF -- who would switch to hook like he was going to grapple away. Then, since you'd instinctively switch to hook to follow, he'd switch back to RL and clobber you in your now vulernable position. Clever bastard.

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      • #18
        I'm sure it is just preference as Shaolin said. 3wavers are used to using the axe-hook like runequakers are used to using +hook.

        It's like when I played keyboard. I kept getting frustrated with mouse (because I didn't know how to bind asdf and use +mlook) so I played KB. I was used to the older way to play and the steps to play, although eventually switching over to mouse I found out it was easier and more efficient of the two.

        Just an example though. I don't want this to become a "keyboard/mouse" topic.

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        • #19
          in reference to Paradise, it sounds like if one wanted to get better at quake in general, they should just practice playing without the hook at all. i happen to agree with this entirely. thats why Death Match requires the most Quake-based skill.

          yes omicron, i did actually just say that.

          but thats not exactly the arguement im getting at. the topic im getting at is that using the axe-hook does the same basic things (get to where you want to be, grappling on to an enemy player with the intent to damage them (i hate people that do this) or to escape an enemy's fire and strike back at them from above) the same way as the +hook. however, using +hook to do these basic things offers more combat efficience than using axe-hook.

          if youre just trying to get where you want to be, +hook allows you to simply free-look to that location, click a button, and off you go. axe-hook does the same thing, but with the added task of switching your weapon out with the hook. you still have to look to where you want to be, you still have to mentally calculate how long you need to hold down the firing button so that you arrive at your desired location efficiently, and you still have to click a button and hold it until you're ready to let go and land. the difference? you have to take time (yes, even just a very small amount of time) to hit an extra key or two to switch to your axe-hook. PLUS it leaves you unarmed while youre either grappling or prepairing to grapple so if someone was to come up behind you and start firing at you, you have to snap your reflexes into fighting mode, pull out a gun, turn to face them, and attack. any good player can get all of that accomplished in less than a second. but heres the problem...if you have yet to throw your hook or are still in mid-grapple, then things have suddenly become less efficient. if you have yet to throw the hook, you may be able to spin around, pull your weapon out and kill your attacker. fine. but then you have to switch back to your hook and go back to what you started to do before you got interrupted. more and more players can come up to you and keep interrupting until you say "screw it" and run off to somewhere else to refresh health, armor and ammo, or you say "screw it", ignore your attackers, and move on to my next scenario. if you were in mid-swing, then you are completely defenseless until you either get to where you are hooked to, or you let go of your hook and land somewhere you didnt calculate. this gives your attacker every advantage over you, especially since your grappling hook is pretty much telling them exactly where you are about to be in a second or two. this way, they can fire a rocket at where ever that happens to be. if the attacker is good, then that rocket is probably going to hit that location the same time you do, unless you let go of your hook before you get there. lets take the same scenario with +hook. you are locked on to your targeted grapple point (TGP from now on)and are ready to throw the hook and get there when an attacker comes up behind you and starts shooting. you can quickly throw your hook, spin around and begin your counter-attack will still grappling toward your destination. this can end in a number of ways, depending on your competence with the +hook, your aim and choice of weapon, and the aim and choice of weapon of your attacker. here are a few of them. 1) your enemy kills you either before you throw the hook, or in mid-grapple because he had a better weapon or could shoot straighter than you. 2) you kill your attacker either before you throw the hook, in mid-grapple, or at your TGP because you had a better weapon or you shot better than him. 3) both of you couldnt seem to hit eachother enough to cause a frag by the time you arrive at your TGP, so you decide to abandon the fight and run away. the third option, of course, has the 2 sub-options of 1) he gives up and persues easier victims, or 2) chases after you with his hook and continues the fight.

          there are about a billion other ways that scenario could end, but im hoping you see my point so that i dont have to list them. now, if you're trying to attach yourself to an enemy with your grappling hook, of course +hook is gonna be the hook of choice, especially if you have your +hook set up like i do.
          objective #1- target some fragbate
          objective #2- hit both mouse keys at the same time and hold em down.
          mission complete. you are now attached to your victim, and are firing your selected weapon. it can be any available weapon (including the axe) EXCEPT the axe-hook. why not the axe-hook? because there is only 1 hook included on this server's mod...and you've already fired it! infact, if you were to switch to the axe-hook while already hooked to something, i think it would make the hook let go prematurely.

          for Paradise's sake, lets say that you are already a master of ground-based combat. you can hunt down, chase down, and gun down anyone on the server. cool. lets throw a grappling hook into the mix. youre in a firefight with some ugly bastard and you appear to be pretty much evenly matched. your rocket-dodging skills and your aim are rivaled well by your current opponent. your enemy then throws his +hook at the ceiling, zips up above you and then hooks to another point in an almost Spiderman-esque fasion without actually touching or getting near the ceiling at all, all the while still lobbing rockets at you. he is now moving much faster than you are, plus he has a height advantage which is almost assured victory in a rocket fight, especially since you still have ground underneith you. that simply means that if he cant actually hit you, then his splash damage can make up for that. who do you think will end up dead in that match? considering the man with the hook knows how to use that hook atleast as well as i do, it wont be him. now, you can try and pull your axe-hook out and swing around like him, but the problem still remains that you will be unable to defend yourself for part of the time. that part of time can determine the difference between a frag and a respawn.

          taking what i've just said to heart, i just want to understand why not take the time to reconfigure your cfg to include the convinience of the +hook? it could very well improve your already awesome performance at Shmack.


          also, im starting to sense a small amount of hostility, so just so everyone understands, im not belittling anyone or calling you wrong. im just trying to get a clear understanding as to why some people dont see things my way. in the long run, you can do whatever you want. i wont stop you or think any less of you.

          im just curious

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          • #20
            This thread are serious.

            I use "hook-toggle".
            "It may disturb you. It scares the willies out of me. " -Slartibartfast

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            • #21
              if +hook is not available in a mod i just make it myself..

              alias +hook "impulse 22;+attack"
              alias -hook "-attack"

              bind "somekey" "+hook"

              pretty basic stuff.. i always assumed everybody did this...

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              • #22
                thanks for that peg, good idear. does that work just as well as regular +hook for you? when i tried that, for some reason it grapped, but the weapon model stayed as shotgun, and then it kept firing even after i released the button. not quite sure why

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                • #23
                  well it kinda depends on the mod i guess.. i did not test the above before posting.. i was merely pointing out the principle.. u may need to use impulse 23 or whatever on the -hook alias..

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                  • #24
                    i just dont use hook. i just kill everyone.

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                    • #25
                      DK, you are missing my point.

                      The point of having alt-hook is to stay on the ground and fight from the ground up, firing rockets at your airborne (or ground opponent). With the alt-hook you are supposed to stay on the ground and fight. Like I said if you keep him in your sights you only have to stay on the ground and switch weapons, rather then take your view off entirely off your opponent to look and hook to your desired location with the +hook.

                      The usage of the alt-hook is to get to items, most fighting is done on ground using this configuration.

                      Yes I am awesome, and that is why I switched to this configuration. I was as good as I could be with +hook until I experienced its weaknesses and decided to change it entirely around.

                      And if you are in mid-air, you can just switch to a weapon and fire back at your opponent, your hook will still go where you fired it. You just have to push more buttons with this configuration but if you do it fast enough it will offset taking your sights entire off your opponent to hook away with +hook.

                      In addition it is still possible with alt-hook to hook onto and opponent and while the grapple is active and AXE them .

                      I hope this answered your questions.
                      Last edited by Paradi$e; 01-15-2008, 09:03 AM.

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                      • #26
                        not entirely. if i wanted to fight someone on the ground, i would fight them on the ground, even if they were hooking around. i usually do that anyway. but i never use the axe-hook. i use +hook to hook to where i need to be. if i were to try to switch to axe-hook, it would slow me down. not slow down my fighting ability, but my ability to get around the map.

                        my aim is decent at best. after 10 years, its actually gotten worse do to computer downgrading (i get horrible framerate and FPS, so theres a slight delay in my free-look when theres a lot going on. yes...it IS that bad of a computer) knowing this, i cant exactly say that im able to hit what i want to hit 100% of the time. even if i was to eliminate the grappling hook from my use entirely, i doubt this would change. i find airborne combat gets me killed because no matter what hook you use, you have to turn away from your opponent to use it, even for a second. then you have to realign your sight to your target. this takes too much time for me, but for someone who knows how to do it well, it would give them a certain advantage over grounded opponents. so, airborne combat aside, lets talk about the other issues we've touched on, such as mid-grapple. lets say you're grappling up to an out-of-reach ledge to grab a mega-health or something. as soon as you throw your hook, an enemy comes up behind you and starts shooting. before your hook even hits its target, youre at a loss of health, so already youre in trouble. you have to pick one of three options in this scenario. let go of the hook and fall short of your megahealth so that you can switch to your weapon and fight your attacker, wait til you get to the megahealth so you can let go, land, switch to your gun and fight back, or switch to your gun in mid-grapple so you can turn to fight, leaving you eventually stuck to a wall or ceiling until you either die or kill your enemy. if you switch out mid-grapple and you cant take out your enemy quickly enough, that hook is gonna stay hooked until you switch back to the axe-hook or activate +hook, leaving you in a vulnerable spot. not only did you just travel in a completely linear path, but now you are immobilized against a wall and ripe for any rocket to scatter you across the map.
                        point #1-with +hook, it wouldnt have to be that way. you can let go of the hook so that you're not a sitting duck and make it to your megahealth without having to ceise fire on your attacker or even turn away from him.

                        like i said, in any other mod, id understand fully why anyone would use axe-hook over belly hook. in most other mods, axe-hook is faster and stronger. but at Shmack, that isnt the story. especially in the case of runes and alternate weapons, sometimes dodging on foot isnt sufficient enough. and you cant always fight back in these situations. (skillless dipshits constantly spamming gas grenades and BFGs from the LG in Start is a good example)
                        point#2-+hook will get you out of harms way quicker than axe-hook and running away can. fact.

                        these are pretty much the points im trying to get at.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by omix2 View Post
                          The reason you wonder this is because you are a scrub who can't remember pre-04 when everyone was using the 3wave hook and not this abomination newbie hook. The belly hook allows you to skimp on aim and just fly around like a retard until you either hit something or kill yourself.
                          Lol! The belly hook allows them to continue hooking without changing weapons thus its a newbie friendly hook..

                          Impulse 22 hook, takes more skill 'cause you have to stop fighting to use the hook.

                          Originally posted by omix2(aka dumbass) View Post
                          It is for TU garbage exclusively, which is why I'm guessing Rook even created it in the first place. Remember this is the guy that added a belly hook to CTF to please some random newbie in TU.
                          No, I didnt create this hook, this is something from the days of artifacts or 3312mods i assume. Though on my implementation its just a hook that shoots from your gun.
                          Originally posted by omix2(aka dumbass) View Post
                          On a side note, rook should be executed for what he has done to quake. List of accomplishments:
                          -Ca X - AKA Splash damage CA
                          CRMOD has the same splash damage if you can remember pre-04 you would know this
                          Originally posted by omix2(aka dumbass) View Post
                          -Belly hook
                          again not my invention.
                          Originally posted by omix2(aka dumbass) View Post
                          -Runequake
                          RuneQuake is SLOT ZERO's mod not mine, i have nothing to do with it.
                          Originally posted by omix2(aka dumbass) View Post
                          -Bellyhook added to 3wave ctf
                          Added to pub server for the majority of people playing quake.
                          Originally posted by omix2(aka dumbass) View Post
                          -3wave ctf converted into a circus (found on ctf.quakeone.com)
                          Its a public server, remember MTOWN or HATING? Those were much worse than pubmode 3wave, which only has a belly hook added! Hell MTOWN had x2 Quad and a turbo hook! You DONT have to play there, if its not your style.
                          Originally posted by omix2(aka dumbass) View Post
                          If I ever see rook IRL I'll rip my quake t-shirt off, chase his ass down and force his body through a 3" sewage opening where he can hang out with the TU scrubs who infest the bottom ranks of quake servers. Down there they can talk about trucks, belly hooks, and whatever else TU white trash garbage usually discourse about.


                          Last edited by R00k; 01-15-2008, 05:46 PM.
                          www.quakeone.com/qrack | www.quakeone.com/cax| http://en.twitch.tv/sputnikutah

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                          • #28
                            teeheee

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                            • #29
                              "where he can hang out with the TU scrubs who infest the bottom ranks of quake servers."



                              Needless to say, pwn'd.

                              Rook, you are a god!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by QuadRaptor View Post
                                "where he can hang out with the TU scrubs who infest the bottom ranks of quake servers."



                                Needless to say, pwn'd.

                                Rook, you are a god!
                                Look at who you beat. I wouldn't be proud of that. Blindfold anyone?

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