apease my curiosity

DK, you are missing my point.

The point of having alt-hook is to stay on the ground and fight from the ground up, firing rockets at your airborne (or ground opponent). With the alt-hook you are supposed to stay on the ground and fight. Like I said if you keep him in your sights you only have to stay on the ground and switch weapons, rather then take your view off entirely off your opponent to look and hook to your desired location with the +hook.

The usage of the alt-hook is to get to items, most fighting is done on ground using this configuration.

Yes I am awesome, and that is why I switched to this configuration. I was as good as I could be with +hook until I experienced its weaknesses and decided to change it entirely around.

And if you are in mid-air, you can just switch to a weapon and fire back at your opponent, your hook will still go where you fired it. You just have to push more buttons with this configuration but if you do it fast enough it will offset taking your sights entire off your opponent to hook away with +hook.

In addition it is still possible with alt-hook to hook onto and opponent and while the grapple is active and AXE them .

I hope this answered your questions.

[JohnRocker]

i just dont use hook. i just kill everyone.

[=peg=]

well it kinda depends on the mod i guess.. i did not test the above before posting.. i was merely pointing out the principle.. u may need to use impulse 23 or whatever on the -hook alias..

[spooker]

thanks for that peg, good idear. does that work just as well as regular +hook for you? when i tried that, for some reason it grapped, but the weapon model stayed as shotgun, and then it kept firing even after i released the button. not quite sure why

[=peg=]

if +hook is not available in a mod i just make it myself..

alias +hook "impulse 22;+attack"
alias -hook "-attack"

bind "somekey" "+hook"

pretty basic stuff.. i always assumed everybody did this...

[IEEE 802.11]

This thread are serious.

I use "hook-toggle".

[Shadowswift]

in reference to Paradise, it sounds like if one wanted to get better at quake in general, they should just practice playing without the hook at all. i happen to agree with this entirely. thats why Death Match requires the most Quake-based skill.

yes omicron, i did actually just say that.

but thats not exactly the arguement im getting at. the topic im getting at is that using the axe-hook does the same basic things (get to where you want to be, grappling on to an enemy player with the intent to damage them (i hate people that do this) or to escape an enemy's fire and strike back at them from above) the same way as the +hook. however, using +hook to do these basic things offers more combat efficience than using axe-hook.

if youre just trying to get where you want to be, +hook allows you to simply free-look to that location, click a button, and off you go. axe-hook does the same thing, but with the added task of switching your weapon out with the hook. you still have to look to where you want to be, you still have to mentally calculate how long you need to hold down the firing button so that you arrive at your desired location efficiently, and you still have to click a button and hold it until you're ready to let go and land. the difference? you have to take time (yes, even just a very small amount of time) to hit an extra key or two to switch to your axe-hook. PLUS it leaves you unarmed while youre either grappling or prepairing to grapple so if someone was to come up behind you and start firing at you, you have to snap your reflexes into fighting mode, pull out a gun, turn to face them, and attack. any good player can get all of that accomplished in less than a second. but heres the problem...if you have yet to throw your hook or are still in mid-grapple, then things have suddenly become less efficient. if you have yet to throw the hook, you may be able to spin around, pull your weapon out and kill your attacker. fine. but then you have to switch back to your hook and go back to what you started to do before you got interrupted. more and more players can come up to you and keep interrupting until you say "screw it" and run off to somewhere else to refresh health, armor and ammo, or you say "screw it", ignore your attackers, and move on to my next scenario. if you were in mid-swing, then you are completely defenseless until you either get to where you are hooked to, or you let go of your hook and land somewhere you didnt calculate. this gives your attacker every advantage over you, especially since your grappling hook is pretty much telling them exactly where you are about to be in a second or two. this way, they can fire a rocket at where ever that happens to be. if the attacker is good, then that rocket is probably going to hit that location the same time you do, unless you let go of your hook before you get there. lets take the same scenario with +hook. you are locked on to your targeted grapple point (TGP from now on)and are ready to throw the hook and get there when an attacker comes up behind you and starts shooting. you can quickly throw your hook, spin around and begin your counter-attack will still grappling toward your destination. this can end in a number of ways, depending on your competence with the +hook, your aim and choice of weapon, and the aim and choice of weapon of your attacker. here are a few of them. 1) your enemy kills you either before you throw the hook, or in mid-grapple because he had a better weapon or could shoot straighter than you. 2) you kill your attacker either before you throw the hook, in mid-grapple, or at your TGP because you had a better weapon or you shot better than him. 3) both of you couldnt seem to hit eachother enough to cause a frag by the time you arrive at your TGP, so you decide to abandon the fight and run away. the third option, of course, has the 2 sub-options of 1) he gives up and persues easier victims, or 2) chases after you with his hook and continues the fight.

there are about a billion other ways that scenario could end, but im hoping you see my point so that i dont have to list them. now, if you're trying to attach yourself to an enemy with your grappling hook, of course +hook is gonna be the hook of choice, especially if you have your +hook set up like i do.
objective #1- target some fragbate
objective #2- hit both mouse keys at the same time and hold em down.
mission complete. you are now attached to your victim, and are firing your selected weapon. it can be any available weapon (including the axe) EXCEPT the axe-hook. why not the axe-hook? because there is only 1 hook included on this server's mod...and you've already fired it! infact, if you were to switch to the axe-hook while already hooked to something, i think it would make the hook let go prematurely.

for Paradise's sake, lets say that you are already a master of ground-based combat. you can hunt down, chase down, and gun down anyone on the server. cool. lets throw a grappling hook into the mix. youre in a firefight with some ugly bastard and you appear to be pretty much evenly matched. your rocket-dodging skills and your aim are rivaled well by your current opponent. your enemy then throws his +hook at the ceiling, zips up above you and then hooks to another point in an almost Spiderman-esque fasion without actually touching or getting near the ceiling at all, all the while still lobbing rockets at you. he is now moving much faster than you are, plus he has a height advantage which is almost assured victory in a rocket fight, especially since you still have ground underneith you. that simply means that if he cant actually hit you, then his splash damage can make up for that. who do you think will end up dead in that match? considering the man with the hook knows how to use that hook atleast as well as i do, it wont be him. now, you can try and pull your axe-hook out and swing around like him, but the problem still remains that you will be unable to defend yourself for part of the time. that part of time can determine the difference between a frag and a respawn.

taking what i've just said to heart, i just want to understand why not take the time to reconfigure your cfg to include the convinience of the +hook? it could very well improve your already awesome performance at Shmack.


also, im starting to sense a small amount of hostility, so just so everyone understands, im not belittling anyone or calling you wrong. im just trying to get a clear understanding as to why some people dont see things my way. in the long run, you can do whatever you want. i wont stop you or think any less of you.

im just curious

[QuadRaptor]

I'm sure it is just preference as Shaolin said. 3wavers are used to using the axe-hook like runequakers are used to using +hook.

It's like when I played keyboard. I kept getting frustrated with mouse (because I didn't know how to bind asdf and use +mlook) so I played KB. I was used to the older way to play and the steps to play, although eventually switching over to mouse I found out it was easier and more efficient of the two.

Just an example though. I don't want this to become a "keyboard/mouse" topic.

[gulliver-trans]

I started with the ctf impulse 22 hook, and switched over to the fast hook.

There were a few servers/mods where you had to alias it yourself:

alias +hook "impulse 98"
alias -hook "impulse 97"

There was one HPB -- back in the halcyon days of 3wave CTF -- who would switch to hook like he was going to grapple away. Then, since you'd instinctively switch to hook to follow, he'd switch back to RL and clobber you in your now vulernable position. Clever bastard.

[PapaSmurf]

Plus, you guys just look silly using the belly hook....hehe

Yah, they should at least make it come out of your left hand or something.

[shaolin]

It's just a matter of preference and opinion. In my opinion, runequake is packed full of newbs, but it does take some skill to learn how to use all those annoying runes.

CTF and the ORIGINAL hook (or "axe-hook" whatever u call it) were around first, and the people who learned to use it back then prefer it over the belly hook. They played with the hook longer, and can fight a hell of a lot better with it than nearly anyone on shmack.

Plus, you guys just look silly using the belly hook....hehe

[Canadian*Sniper]

I believe trinicom used impulses for hook that weren't aliased.

[Solecord]

Agreed. ^^ +hook should simply alias the axe hook or alt hook.

Anyone remember the pub ctf mod that had a belly hook that you had to use impulse 98 to shoot and impulse 99 to release?

[Baker]

If you are object to the style of the hook, I agree.

+hook should be the same hook as the hook you get pressing 1 twice when on a 3wave server.

3wave should use 3wave hook.

[omix2]

+hook is basically the coward's way out of having the aim necessary to excel in quake. the axe-hook is the ancient way of getting to where you want to go fast.

2 answers to the questions posed above