Argh! Slower rockets

[golden_boy]

For testing purposes, the speed of rockets in the Quake Remake project was drastically reduced. Rockets no longer travel at 1000 ups and connect instantly; they were slowed to practically the Quake 2 velocity (650 ups), which turns the RL from an explosive semi-railgun into a controlling-space weapon.

You can have more rockets in the air at a time, thus more effectively blanket an area and deny it to opponents. On the other hand, it's harder to hit a moving target. It's also slightly harder to juggle people, but since we didn't change the weapon switch time and the shaft is still the same, you can still airshaft, it just requires more skill.

Because of the rockets-in-the-air thing, you can now practically advance under the cover of your own rockets, having switched to shaft or similar (we also have DOOM style shotguns). This means you can have your shaft out before the last rocket has impacted.

I'd like to know if this would bother the hell out of most players, or if they would perhaps welcome the change / rebalancing of weapons.

This is a mod, so it's not likely to become the new standard or something. I'm just putting the idea of rebalancing the weapons a bit up for discussion.

[Baker]

I always thought the speed of rockets in Quake was perfect.

Most veteran Quake players are damn near impossible to hit with a rocket unless you shoot them from behind.

[The weapon I always thought evolved to become far too powerful was the shaft.]

However, most of the players that still play Quake multiplayer have well beyond normal dexterity so then really it becomes a question of who you want to please.

[As an example, I'd point to Quake 3 as a game built to appeal to "normal" people. A whole bunch of relatively ineffective weapons except the rail gun with big mostly flatish maps with no cover and footstep sounds so you can't hide out or sneak up on people.]

[foq]

I like my rockets the way they are.

[Senban]

My theory in Qoetia has been to make the RL the bench-mark weapon and balance the other weapons towards it to one extent or another, although I have reduced the number of rockets a player can carry to 20, and the ammo boxes to 3/6. I'm with you on the shotguns, the basic Quake shotgun just doesn't feel powerful enough and it's low spread makes it most effective at long range. If you are going to reduce the velocity I wouldn't dip much below 750, that should still take some of the dominating edge of the weapon but it'll still feel nice and deadly to fire.

[golden_boy]

Doesn't it basically suck that other weapons (except shaft) aren't really very attractive? My theory is that making other weapons more powerful (in relation) increases the depth of the game.

QW players will hate it, sure. That's not the target demographic though. The intended audience consists pretty much of people who play the singleplayer portion (the main dish), and want to have some fun in DM with their friends or bots. Not least the people on the project, none of which are progamers. It's not intended for tournaments, e-sport and the like. The intention is "fun for most people", not "replace Clan Arena".

It's a well established fact that the top players like to play DM3 all the time and want nothing to change. Good for them, I say. ;-)

Maybe I'll cook up a test mod that only has the rebalanced weapons and invite a couple playtesters.

Balancing the other weapons against the RL - um, how about singleplayer then? :-P

Footsteps: Q2 has footsteps, too, but not when you hold down Walk. Footsteps aren't always bad.

[Phenom]

Don't touch my rocket speed !

If I want slower rockets i'll play Quake 3.

[Phenom]

Daddys gunna double post.

Maybe reduce rocket ammo instead of slowing them down. that way the physics don't change, only the game play.

In my experience in mods and compilations, the rocket launcher plays just fine, I cant fully enjoy the "mod" if I'm treated like a noob and given 100 rockets 1/5th of the way through.

In SP games the rocket launcher should be a very scarce weapon and the LG probably even scarcer. I've seen many map makers/mod maker use this method and their maps/mods play very intensely since it gives the feeling of being overwhelmed a heightened presences since they can't spam doorways/hallways with rockets like they're at a shooting range.

[Disco]

is that u phenom?

[Lardarse]

In SP games the rocket launcher should be a very scarce weapon and the LG probably even scarcer. I've seen many map makers/mod maker use this method and their maps/mods play very intensely since it gives the feeling of being overwhelmed a heightened presences since they can't spam doorways/hallways with rockets like they're at a shooting range.

This is part of the reason why I didn't include the GL in Bloody Slipgates.

Another reason might be availablility of ammo. With most maps where the RL/GL should be considered, you'll have ogres. And whenever you have ogres, you have a chance that the player will collect a sizeable number of rockets jsut from dropped ammo. Which means that suddenly, all of the weaker monsters stop being a viable defense and just become speed bumps.

More to come after the weekend...

[golden_boy]

Thanks for the opinions anyway.

[R00k]

I seem to remember in DarkPlaces mod, the rockets launched like they do off an aircraft carrier; launching slow then exponentially increase in speed. It's harder to aim but looked cool.