The idea of Quake.

[barrelroll5]

After playing alot of CK (I wanted to get revenge on the cute guy so I played some Doom 2 for a while (you get to kill Comander Keith)) It shows on the previews "The Fight For JUSTICE!". This is the early idea of quake, a guy who has a hammer who can blow/break shit up. But id never got to that idea, but they did make Quake. But Quake one isnt getting ANY sequels. Quake 2= Not a sequel. Quake 3= No story line. Quake 4= Sequel to Q2. Quake 5 better be on id Tech 5 and it better be a sequel to Q1. Like the return to the diffrent demension. Or someday, The fight for justice may be made as a prequel to Quake 1. Dead serious.

[golden_boy]

that is well known.

[Hazza]

To be honest I have a lot of hopes that id will take this thing seriously by:

1- NOT palming it off to Raven, who simply don't have a knack for making good sequels to id games.

2- Getting some creative juices flowing- Doom 3 had both some highly inspired bits (Hell, the new monsters and many of the old ones) and some horribly unimaginative ones (the base layout and imps were carbon copies of generic sci-fi horror). Even Quake 1 had a brilliant first episode, but the other 3 were boring and felt generic.

3- If they DID end up passing the game to another studio, make sure it's one that has a good approach
Basically, mix Lovecraft Horror to heavy action industrial-ish sci-fi and gritty, berserk gothic bits NOT inspired by fantasy RPGs- and add Quake3Arena and Doom3-style crazyness and imagination, and finally strip out all of the ripped-off cliches (like trying to be like Aliens), then it should be good.

[Baker]

I think the last 10 years have been dominated by unimaginative games in favor of "realism". I wouldn't expect that to change, even with id Software games.

Games today have to have a story, realistic weapons and make sense. And the plot has to be plausible.

In other words, all games "think too hard". (This goes the same for movies too, mostly).

If you watch movies from the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s ... they didn't have this sense that everything has to explained and leveraged "fear of the unknown".

Having unknowns in a game today is heresy.

[metchsteekle]

i thought episode 2 and 3 were pretty original, especially 3, i call t the land of melt and metal. episode 4 didn't have the greatest brushwork or texture alignment, but i think the elder episode was supposed to be more alien than anything else making it harder to connect.

[MH]

I'd rank e2 as the highmark. But Baker has a point - nothing even remotely like Quake could happen today owing to the drive towards realism and sophistication. Maybe in 5 years time if things turn around again and a simple fun game that doesn't necessarily have to make sense becomes plausible again, then it might happen, but don't hold your breath for it.

[golden_boy]

Games today have to have a story, realistic weapons and make sense. And the plot has to be plausible.

I'm glad it is like that.

I see no conflict between that and a Quake sequel, either.

Story: Military scrambles to fight an unknown aggressor - hero is sent in after the first wave failed. Hero witnesses military failure everywhere and has to save the world by himself.

Realistic weapons: Er, plasma gun? Gravity gun? Dark Matter gun? "Realistic" here just means that the feel, suggested mechanics, sound and impact of the weapon has to be remotely believable. I don't think Prey had realistic weapons (as in real-world).

Make sense: This only means that the game's world must be coherent within itself. "Avatar" isn't realistic, and doesn't make sense in the usual way.

Plausible plot: What can be more plausible than scientific research going horrifically wrong and military/security totally failing at their mission? Every Bruce Willis movie has at least the latter. People swallow that.

Quake's plot isn't less coherent or plausible than DOOM's, really. Quake has realistic weapons in the form of shotguns, axe (both combat and fire/rescue axes are in use by military worldwide), grenade and rocket launcher. The others can be explained to be alien weapons just like in Prey.

The concept of parallel universes (called dimensions in Quake) is actually very modern and plausible. You're a nutcase if you don't believe in multiple universes. A location in another universe having different architecture and life-forms is not unlikely.

OK, you have SHub-Niggurath and Chthon. Well, they're taken from well-known, classic fantasy literature. I think that isn't hard to sell at all. Every game has "monsters".

No problem here. I would expect the military and science part of a Quake sequel to be more realistic (like ETQW for example), which is good, and the monster/dimensional/fantasy part (Lovecraft IS fantasy) to be more spaced-out and survival horror like (DOOM3 Hell). But it would work. It could work brilliantly if id made it.

[Baker]

No problem here. I would expect the military and science part of a Quake sequel to be more realistic (like ETQW for example), which is good, and the monster/dimensional/fantasy part (Lovecraft IS fantasy) to be more spaced-out and survival horror like (DOOM3 Hell). But it would work. It could work brilliantly if id made it.

Well, Quake is about the player.

Modern games are about ...

1. The equipment (50 types of guns and auxilliary weapons, vehicles, etc.)
2. The controls (crouch, flashlights, zoom, night vision, etc.)
3. The "goals"
4. Alternate fire modes and such

Quake keeps it simple.

You are there. The player and his environment. Nothing more.

I'd play alternate takes on Quake in a sequel, but the things that made Quake brilliant were the moddability and the streamlined focus.

[golden_boy]

Well, Quake is about the player.

Modern games are about ...

1. The equipment (50 types of guns and auxilliary weapons, vehicles, etc.)
2. The controls (crouch, flashlights, zoom, night vision, etc.)
3. The "goals"
4. Alternate fire modes and such

Quake keeps it simple.

You are there. The player and his environment. Nothing more.

I'd play alternate takes on Quake in a sequel, but the things that made Quake brilliant were the moddability and the streamlined focus.

Hmmm. Yes, multiplayer team games like ETQW have zillions of wepons, classes and vehicles. Single player FPS? Weapon upgrades perhaps, and a single altfire per weapon. Like Quake 4. I don't think that getting an upgrade for your nailgun from some dead marine, or having a scope on the nailgun, would ruin Quake - I'm actually thinking of something like a scoped nailgun for RMQ (since in RMQ, it is practically the only sniper weapon).

I don't think some vehicles would ruin Quake, either, as long as they're either optional (like in ETQW) or otherwise handled in a subtle way.

Crouch: I'm all for giving the player new abilities. Crouching is pretty standard in FPS, even DOOM3 has crouching.

Flashlight: Again, it's a question how you handle it. A tac-lite upgrade for your shotgun wouldn't exactly destroy the game.

Zoom: Vanilla Quake has a zoom bind...

Night vision: I agree that this is un-quakey.

Objectives: Nowhere does it say that a Quake sequel would need these... it's pretty unlikely to receive orders when you're alone in another world, either. Apart from that, they can be done in an unobtrusive way.

Alternate fire modes: I don't think one alternate fire mode per gun would "kill Quake".

As you see, I don't think these modern things are all that bad. You can have all that and still remain "about the player". I'm not suggesting to turn it into ETQW FFS.

Finally, a sequel does not kill the original Quake - it will be there for you, always, to go back to if you want. If you want exactly the same game, why have a sequel??

[Baker]

Hmmm. Yes, multiplayer team games like ETQW have zillions of wepons, classes and vehicles. ...
Finally, a sequel does not kill the original Quake - it will be there for you, always, to go back to if you want. If you want exactly the same game, why have a sequel??

I'm not against a true Quake sequel. I'd love it even if it strayed a little or maybe even a lot as long as it wasn't heresy.

But what I have been saying since my first post is that modern games unfailing get bogged down by problems like too many guns, too many keys to control things, too many action keys and things that shift the emphasis from "playing the game and being immersed in the world" to a mastery of the controls, equipment and such.

Quake is about the player in a strange environment.

Modern games are about the gear, the binoculars and the bullshit. So you focus on your controls and learn about your gear and so forth.

I'm just saying they don't make focused single player exploration games these days like Quake.

Typical modern game on PC:

1. Wait forever for it load.
2. Oops. Insert CD or DVD so DRM is happy. Do I remember where it was from last time I played?
2. The frame rate blows; open menu and try to find how to turn crap off until it runs "ok".
3. Go to the controls, there are 70 keys in a scrolling list so they aren't all on-screen.
4. Play game ... hit part of game where you open controls to figure out which of the 18 keys that does some sort of important action is the one you need for the current situation.
5. Map changes. Take a 5 minute break for new media to load ... zzzz

Quake ... you start it up and you play. Very limited control set = movement + jump + mousewheel to change weapon.

[Ranger]

Story: Just needs to be juiced out more, throw in a few more details and yer set

Realistic weapons: They're all realistic, DoD spending at its best:
Axe - maybe you should have an army knife first, and pickup the axe when you enter Quake
SG - fine
SSG - fine
NG - fine, The SGC took the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Combat_Rifle to the next level with higher caliber nails
SNG - above
GL - fine
RL - fine, like some hitech porta launcher the Slipgate complex developed
ThndrB - fine, Slipgate complex developed weapon
PrxL - fine
LasCan - fine, Slipgate complex developed weapon



Make sense: Perfectly, just get rid of the satanic crap and strogg trash and its good

Plausible plot: Of course, ever wonder why ancient civilizations tell legends of dragons, ogres and mystical creatures? because they existed (arriving to earth from alternate collection of dimensions collectively known as Quake) and visited Earth 1000s of years ago.
Quake existed probably before God created the current universe/dimension.

Shub-Niggurath, Chthon, the Dragon, the Overlord are just great.
Just get rid of Armagon and replace that Strogg cyborg with another HP lovecraft entity

Doom 3 was alright but, I felt id's attempt to keep it old school was holding the game back.
I mean if id made it more realistic like HL2, it could've won the awards HL2 got. And the zombie outta the closet was really annoying.