No new "decorative" models?

[golden_boy]

I believe it is simply due to Worldcraft not supporting it. And a couple irrational reasons.

[Spiney]

I have no idea why q3bsp isn't standard in the Q1 community by now.

Because it would need to be supported by every bloody engine?
Would be nice though...

[MadGypsy]

I can make it complicated for you in a puzzle/challenge way. Here is the Worldcraft "manual". You can pretty much skip the entire thing down to basic entities and work through to the end of complex entities.

The challenge:

Translate Worldcraft entity examples to Radiant without any help of any kind. Now here is the thing.. the way things are connected/named/etc will be the exact same, but where that stuff is in the menu and sub panels will be completely different. So this challenge isn't "make it work". This challenge is "find it". Probably a good way to memorize Radiants options and their locations as-well-as how "map logic" works.

*map logic: as far as I know, I just made this up and it is meant to imply how entities and brushes can be connected/used to create a more complex element.

[JDSTONE]

thanks for the input on the idea... i imported it in to blender and exported it as a map and that did not work. but i did get radiant set up thanks to madgypsy and golden boy tutorials! ive been drawing and painting boxes all day its not as hard as i thought it would be thanks for you help!

[MadGypsy]

I don't think so

ah, I see.

[golden_boy]

That model isn't actually so high-poly; it wouldn't even create any additional vis leaves since in q1bsp, it would be nonsolid. The biggest problem would be that it might flicker in and out of sight in engines that don't have a fix for it, depending how many vis leaves it does cross.

Loading it in a q1 map is very doable, but pointless because it won't be solid or cast shadows.

In q3bsp, it's likely it would "just work" and look good with a bit of sunlight making nice shadows. I would cut it into smaller pieces because not all parts of it need to be solid. It would also be displayed in Radiant, so you could place monsters etc. inside of it without problems.

r_speed nightmare

I don't think so, since a nonsolid model doesn't create any cuts at all. In q1bsp, it would be an entity just like a monster.

[FifthElephant]

to be able to see that from he outside would probably be an r_speed nightmare and to not see it from outside would make it pointless.

hollowing boxes > hollowing castles.

You're 1 post away from true leetness...

As for the map, it would not play well. At least not without a very decent machine... It's possible you could get it to look good without sacrificing the detail but it may take as much work as building from scratch.

[MadGypsy]

to be able to see that from he outside would probably be an r_speed nightmare and to not see it from outside would make it pointless.

hollowing boxes > hollowing castles.

[JDSTONE]

ok ive been wondering if you can import something small can you do something big?

Castle 3D Model - Free - max, obj



you would need it to show up in a level editor to make it worth wile so you could place monsters and hallow it out in places to make rooms...

if so it may just be the thing for no talent ass clowns who want to map like my self...

[talisa]

seven's small mod compilation supports this, adding any model you want into any map:
http://quakeone.com/forums/quake-hel...arkplaces.html

and it also supports adding any kinda sound anywhere in a map, or adding any kinda particle effect to any model as well

seven also included some files in his thread with examples of possible things you could add just to get ideas. like he added statues to the halls of start-map, and added sparks to machines in E1M1, and adding haze to lava-pools, and adding lava bubbling sound to lava and such

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivDInWz4--I&feature=plcp]models and effects start-map[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG3IUNuApo0&list=UUbX7uVIXqMzBza0YmLJuMdw& index=1&feature=plcp]models added to E1M1[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYJoRFefgTI&feature=plcp]effects added to E1M1[/ame]

[FifthElephant]

It's so supported that its the default build for Radiant and some well known, quality, Quake engines implement it flawlessly.



That's hilarious, brah. I'm pretty sure what you just said (but didn't know you said) is:

"The way it's actually done sounds good in theory, but.."

Oh I know what I said, I meant it... Radiant might support it but it's the engines that make the game work. More features are always welcome, if they're supported

[damage_inc]

Super thanks for the all info(screneies, links etc) g_b, I love looking at your "work". And read your blog semi-regularly.

You guys confirmed what I thought... lighting/shadows and collision a no go.

[golden_boy]

Well. I tend to be a bit in your face sometimes, it's normal where I come from.

Anyway, yeah, the q3bsp way of doing things does absolutely work, and if you use Darkplaces and Radiant, you can simply go and do it without further preparation. You'll need to learn a modeling program like Blender, too.

It gives you the option to pretty much just bake models into the BSP.

It will never be widely used or supported, because it requires Quake 3 map support to become standard in Quake engines (won't happen) and in Quake level editors (won't happen either).

But work it does, and flawlessly.

If you want it to work with GLquake, Fitzquake etc, then you can either use .mdl format and a mod that supports it (Quoth or RMQ misc_model), or prefabs made from brushes.

There is no common library of mapmodels that Quake mappers use, probably simply because vanilla Quake doesn't support such a thing.

You need either a mod (a custom progs.dat), or q3bsp/Darkplaces/FTE/Radiant/Blender/...

The mod route works for candles and the like - everything that doesn't need to cast shadows or collide properly (by that I mean, more exact collision than just a box) - but the q3bsp route will be required for proper lighting and collision.

I did some barrels etc last year, still using Quake 1 BSP format (and IQM for the models):

Props | spawnhost

More AO going on | spawnhost

Ambient occlusion | spawnhost



I was baking AO maps to make up for the lack of proper lighting; however, that won't make your props cast shadows. Notice how none of the barrels etc. in the shots linked above cast any shadows. Also note how some models just appear black. These props are nonsolid, btw - you would need clipbrushes or bounding boxes to make them appear solid, which is a hacky solution that doesn't work very well.



I later moved on to use q3bsp, as outlined above.



This is with q3bsp in FTE, notice how the props cast shadows now. This method also allows for the models to be solid and collide according to their actual shape.



The upper screenshots are from the Remake Quake project that nobody liked, the lower ones are a testmap with Scout's Journey props.

[MadGypsy]

It's so supported that its the default build for Radiant and some well known, quality, Quake engines implement it flawlessly.

Golden_boy's idea of baked prefab models sounds nice, but...

That's hilarious, brah. I'm pretty sure what you just said (but didn't know you said) is:

"The way it's actually done sounds good in theory, but.."

It's ok, I could show you a reply golden_boy gave me to one of my questions (a long time ago) and then have no problem making you empathize my thoughts after reading it.

{clasps face and massages brain} "It just never ends.. You learn all kinds of stuff and then it isnt even ...anything, cause there is just a whole bunch more stuff no matter how much stuff you think you have learned. I can't even keep all of this in my brain. {glitch ~bzzt~}. Fuck stuff, Imma go sit in the corner, hug my knees and quietly rock til it all goes away."

that's how I felt...kinda still do

[FifthElephant]

When I say "retain the classic feel" I didn't mean "don't add anything new"... I like what capnbubs has begun with his authentic models, it feels like Quake+. I love Quoth''s expanded monster roster, Sock's amazingly good ITS mod (those new custom textures are a thing of beauty!)... Nothing wrong with keeping things faithful to the design of the original game.
I personally don't think the current model format or its implimentation works on a larger scale, it's nice for "flavour detail" but it's not really great for big architectural work. Golden_boy's idea of baked prefab models sounds nice but I'm not sure how wide-spread it would become or be supported, this community is small and the "keep it simple, stupid" ideas tend to work better.