what the fuck

[Davers]

You know, this thread started off with some memes, then ascended into deep philosophy, and now everyone's all sentimental n' stuff. What the fuck indeed.

lol

[DeathMaster]

Here's a response: It is impossible to conceive anything at all in the world which can be taken as good without qualification, except a good will.

Damn.

[Zop]

Here's a response:

It is impossible to conceive anything at all in the world which can be taken as good without qualification, except a good will.

[DeathMaster]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

!ERROR: deathmasters_awesome_comeback.exe does not exist. Emulation will now stop.

Error code: 2501995

[MadGypsy]

Did God put that in your heart or is it something you just decided? Also, if God put that in your heart...which "God"? Chances are, unless you were divinely inspired or came to those answers via some spiritual awakening then you basically just decided it and the chances of you being correct are probably zero.

I hope I worded that in a way that doesn't offend you. It's not easy to explain politely how someone's beliefs are misguided. I attempt to stay away from telling you that you are wrong and challenge you to provide an authority for your beliefs instead. I left out the bible cause everything you said is completely opposite of the bible. So, prove your belief without it.

food for thought:

@if you don't hurt anyone intentionally and have good intentions...
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[DeathMaster]

Y'know, since everyone's on religion now, I might as well throw in my two cents.

I kind of have my own version of Catholicism. Kinda like Carrie, except not extreme or complete bullshit or really anything like Carrie other than the fact that it's a spin on Catholicism. It came about when I really got sick of some of the crap modern Catholicism was doing. It goes down to two basic elements:

Good person = Good person
If you don't hurt anyone intentionally and have good intentions, then you're a good person. No loopholes, no exceptions, etc. If you respect others and do things that don't intentionally hurt other people, THEN THE GOLDEN GATES OF HEAVEN SHALL WELCOME YOU WITH AN IMMACULATE CHORUS! (Unless Catholicism is wrong, in that case, you die an alright human being. It's a win win!)

Asshole = Asshole
Vice versa of everything above.

It doesn't matter if you're gay, straight, male, female, left wing, right wing, black, white, green, blue, purple, etc. No one discriminates, no one gets hurt. You aren't sentenced to eternal damnation just because you like something (unless it hurts someone else). Life goes on, and if you're a good person, then you're a good person.

At least, that's my take on things. Man, screw hate, let's all just get together and work out our issues on DM2, ok?

[MadGypsy]

lol @ sentimental n stuff

I don't know about that "everyone" part.

[DeathMaster]

You know, this thread started off with some memes, then ascended into deep philosophy, and now everyone's all sentimental n' stuff. What the fuck indeed.

[MadGypsy]

@ Well I tried to point out that no one is better than the other, but I guess I went to far.

What do you mean by "went too far"?

I don't think the conversation is so much about anyone being better than anyone else. This entire thread seems to be more about philosophical opinions regarding a range of subjects which mostly encompass critical thinking vs believe-what-you're-told. This is my entire problem with religions. They are wholly based on the believe-what-you're-told concept. So much so, that believing differently than you are told makes you a different religion, which is supposedly for the same God. Of course I mean this within believing in God in the first place.

[Frost R17]

I'm sorry

Well I tried to point out that no one is better than the other, but I guess I went to far.

[MadGypsy]

I'm guessing that was aimed at Frost even though he did not quote a single verse? I think I have made it clear that I absolutely do not believe in fairy tales. If God comes down and hands me a book personally I'd be highly inclined to read it.... after I have made sure (to the best of my ability) that that was even God in the first place.

You may "AHa" me and claim that God is the fairy tale. All I can say in response is that my belief in God has absolutely nothing to do with books or being told anything. I believe that I have personal confirmation of a supreme being and have yet to conjure enough cynicism to disprove it. Did I mention that I am hyper cynical?

If you just skimmed my last post you may want to reread it and realize that I quoted the bible to prove YOUR point...lol

[Davers]

If you choose to believe in fairy tales, by all means go for it.
You can quote the bible all day long, i stand on the side of evidence and science.

"keeping the garden hose ready for those summer jehovas.." lol

[MadGypsy]

I'm sort of in the crossfire because I am not an Atheist but I am not Religious either. I am actually a LeVeyan Satanist that firmly believes in God. I have christian tendencies but, choose to mostly follow myself. That being said, regarding Dawkins quote...

1) jealous and proud of it - the bible claims that God admits his jealousy.
Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God

2) a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak - according to the bible, if you do not live your life exactly as God has told you to you will burn in the lake of fire and brimstone where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for all of eternity.

Nothing absolutely ridiculous about that, right? Screw up your approx 72 years and spend eternity in hell

3)a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser - Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's flood, nuff said

4)a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - I'm not wasting my life hitting all those points so I will just hit a few.

“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.” Romans 1:26-28
“But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” Mark 10:6-9
“The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.” 1 Timothy 1:10-11
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” Leviticus 20:13
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” Leviticus 18:22
“The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth and said, “My lords, please turn aside to your servant’s house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the town square.” But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” Genesis 19:1-5

It's almost like there are 2 Gods in the bible. The all loving, forgiving one that asks only that you believe to receive the kingdom of heaven and the bloodthirsty hateful one that will fucking smite you and condemn you to an eternity of torture. I find all of this ridiculous. Supposedly god is all knowing. OK, then that means he knew where every one of us was going to end up before we were ever born. That means that a number of us were literally born to die for eternity, it was our fate from the beginning. Regardless of your choice, God already knew what choice you would make and therefore you never really had a choice in the first place.

This can be coupled with another of my opinions. Why would an all powerful, all knowing god need/want the praise of humans? Does our all powerful god have validation/confidence issues or something? Why must the only 2 choices be heaven/hell? To believe that the best that the most ultimate supreme being can concoct is an ultimate punishment/ ultimate reward system is silly to me. Burn for all of eternity? What is this, the dark ages? Even life prison sentences have an expiration date and your time isn't spent in constant torture. So, what, humans are more loving than god? Humans will put you in a prison for a time, feed you, house you and even give you opportunities to redeem yourself. God however just throws you in a fire pit and calls it a day? Why does there have to be an ultimate punishment system at all? Wouldn't not making it to heaven be an incredible punishment in itself? This is why the bible is basically junk. I'd like to believe my God is more advanced than an unrealistic brat.

The 10 commandments in themself are little more than pandering to extreme ignorance. Who amongst us needed a bible to know killing, stealing and sleeping with somebody's wife is wrong? I mean really, how incredibly dense the people of Moses time must have been to not find these things self evident. In contrast, more people have been raped and killed in the name of god than any other name.

If you believe there is a god and you want to live your life for him/her, throw all your dogma books in the garbage and form a spiritual relationship directly with God. If God is the word and god is in you then the word is in you, not in any fucking books. Especially not a book that forms the basis for like 20 different religions all claiming to follow the same god.

Did you know the word "church" is derived from Circe? Circe was an enchantress so, church is basically "house of the enchantress". And what happens in a church... you are told what to believe. You have been conditioned that a church is a place of God and a preacher is a man of God. Most people walk into a church with their guard and reason completely dropped. How convenient. There are buildings all over the world that will tell you conflicting things on how to get to heaven and "you" are ready to receive that information without question. Most people choose churches based on their ability to identify with the beliefs and rituals. Take a hardcore catholic of 30 or so years and stick them in a United Pentecostal Church. Aside from the fact that only the most daft catholic wont realize that what is being preached is contrary to their beliefs (albeit for the same god) the amplified energy and environment would be sufficient to make that person very uncomfortable. Even if that catholic could prove that catholicism will send them to hell they would probably return to the catholic church out of familiarity and ability to accept their environment.

I'm not saying catholicism will send you to hell. I don't believe in hell. To believe in hell is to believe my god is a complete asshole.

[Frost R17]

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Excellent book, check it out sometime.

Well Richard Dawkins is an Atheist and, to me, is quite obvious. Most Atheists I've seen so far has nothing nice to say about Religion (mostly Christianity) and this is such example. Of course it is also obvious for me, as a Christian, to disagree with him and other Atheists when it comes to this subject. However, what I'm trying to point out is respecting and understanding each others' boundaries and it doesn't matter if we believe or don't believe in God. Unfortunately this still keeps on going. I believe that Atheists who talk down to Theists for believing a God or Supreme Being are probably just bad eggs in Atheism, just like Religion having their fair share of bad eggs. Besides, aren't Atheists generally people who don't believe in God or any other deity? If so, then Atheists who argue Theists that push their beliefs against other people are doing the exact same thing. Plus Atheists dismisses Theists for using the Bible or any other book or scripture to point out their arguments, yet ironically Atheists use Bible or any other book or scripture to point out their arguments.

I'm sorry but I don't see how Richard Dawkins quote is a fair, justified statement. It almost seems like a bash against Religion statement, even the title itself sounds like it. Plus how would you know if he and Atheists like him are right if the question of God's existence is beyond our ability to answer? Of course, same thing can be said for Theists because neither side can easily answer the question. So best thing to do is simple: believe what we want to believe and respect others opinion without judging each other unfairly. I'm not bashing Atheism nor I hate them, but I can't give any respect to any Atheist who judges unfairly as I can't give respect to other people for mistreating others.

Like what I said in my conclusion before this post is that it is best to be respectful and understanding to each others' boundaries. Besides, we're all just people; no one is better than the other.

[MadGypsy]

There is a big difference between being Christian and being Religious. Christian implies that you are "like Christ" and strive to act in a way that is similar to Christ. Religion is a man-made belief system based on man-made interpretations. To truly be christian you would have to remove religion from your life cause, Christ did not follow or espouse any religion. You can't be "like Christ" if you aren't anything like Christ. Jesus was a leader of men via the spirit of God, not a follower of doctrine.

@Richard Dawkins quote
Amen.

Just remember that the pre-catholics murdered all the christians, then compiled the bible. If I wanted to trick you, murdering everyone that can tell you the truth would be a good place to start. Pretending to uphold the people I just murdered would be the next step. Teaching you the "truth" would be the final one. I get a kick out of people that claim God will preserve his word when God didn't write a single one of them.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In other words, before there was anything there was a god with laws and the power to enforce them. To say God will preserve his word is nothing more than saying God will not change his laws. He apparently gave these laws to Moses and that is the one and only time God wrote anything. I find it ironic that Moses broke the original tablets and then rewrote them... first deception? I'd love to see a comparison between the first set of tablets and the copies.

My father and I argued the bible for about 20 years. His argument was something like "Regardless of how much of the bible MAY be bullshit, the teachings of Jesus are undeniably inspired by God." My argument was basically "The bible tells you not to pray to anything but God and chapters later we are supposed to pray in the name of a man. Jesus' words are only inspired by God if Jesus ever existed, of which nobody can prove. Satan's biggest trick is deceit. It seems to me that the biggest deception ever would be to have you praying to some God in the name of a man because some "wholesome" book (written/translated/compiled by men) told you to. Not to mention that the main key to heaven is to simply believe in Jesus... Accept Jesus (a man) as your lord and savior but don't put false idols before god..? Wha?"

If the bible was truly inspired by an all knowing, all powerful being it would be really fucking clear as to it's translation and it wouldn't contradict itself anywhere. Room for interpretation and contradiction are the devils tools.