Why Aren't I 50 Points Ahead?

[MadGypsy]

@Nahuel

The "war on terror" was planned a long long time ago and it's only goal was to create an endless war chasing boogey-men in order to take away the rights and freedoms of "democratic" countries in the name of "security".

I'm not saying terrorists don't exist or anything like that but, as Kissinger said "Never let a good crisis go to waste." ie...If the government can use or create a situation which will grant them more power... they will. There comes a point where the governments power HAS to come at the expense of our freedom and rights.

Supposedly, some terrorists flew planes into the world trade center in New York on 9/11. Due to that act (regardless of the perpetrators) Americans got the patriot act, which started a "legal" mass surveillance program on all Americans and placed a Gestapo (TSA) in every airport. We get attacked, lose privacy and freedom of travel and the government greatly expanded it's power. That power kept growing too. According to the NDAA, Anyone can be arrested and indefinitely detained at the discretion of the Government. That's ass fucking opposite to the constitution of our country. Imagine if someone came and punched you in the face and the "governments" answer to that was that you can't have a face anymore. This is more or less exactly what happened. Someone came an attacked our freedoms and the government said you can't have freedom. IMO (and if I didn't know it was on purpose), I'd say our government is one giant coward. Instead of a definitive and absolute eradication of terrorism and policies that empower the citizens to help in that eradication the government attacks it's own citizens with over-reaching and freedom destroying laws/orders. How there hasn't been a very bloody and armed revolution over this is AMAZING to me.

All I'm trying to say is most of these wars have nothing to do with eliminating terror. If terror was truly eliminated the government would have to relinquish much of the power they gain from the whole terror situation. Show me a government that wants to give away it's powers and I'll show you the cover to the fairy tale you're reading.

[Focalor]

Supposedly, some terrorists flew planes into the world trade center in New York on 9/11.

Supposedly? First the "Churchill was worse than Hitler" bullshit, and now this. Did someone tell you Alex Jones wasn't full of shit? Because I assure you, he is.

[Mugwump]

Supposedly? First the "Churchill was worse than Hitler" bullshit, and now this. Did someone tell you Alex Jones wasn't full of shit? Because I assure you, he is.

You gotta admit there are sketchy details in the story.

[MadGypsy]

I'm not even going to address the churchhill vs hitler. All I can tell you is to do some research and maybe free yourself from a life of propaganda and robot-think. Regarding Alex Jones... really? You think that I follow Alex Jones?

Go find any thread by me which damns all religion as being nothing more than some man's interpretation of the truth and you'll realize I could never follow Alex Jones or any other "preacher". I have my own mind and I use it. I am also a voracious researcher.

Also my sentence didn't say Supposedly. It said Supposedly, more things in this sentence. The supposed part is that Terrorists did it. If you believe a bunch of hack pilots hijacked a 747 and successfully flew it into anything called a target and various ID's and other information survived a fire so strong to take down a skyscraper, twice in the same day, for the first and last time in all of recorded history (3 times if you count a building that wasn't hit by anything)... then we have a clear answer as to why you and I aren't going to agree on anything.


The difference is: I am not going to attack you for believing things that seem very very stupid to me. Just as you try and pin me to Alex Jones, I could pin you to MSNBC. I'm not going to do that, though cause, that is a sign of very thin perception. It implies that you aren't capable of doing your own research and simply coming to an opposing view from mine. You just did that to me though and it's super weak, brah.

[Dutch]

@focalor

It is totally impossible for the govt to round up all the guns from people. There are over 400 million legal guns in America (last I checked, anyway). They simply don't have the manpower.

What they will (and try) to do is make it almost impossible (or financially impractical) to obtain common resources associated with firearms, such as ammo, accessories (magazines), reloading supplies and what not. They will also try to pass legislation that makes it to where the only place you can legally have your gun is in a safe. These things mostly happen on the state level, which is why I live where I live now, but the feds try to get involved as well.

It's not a matter of them going all 'nazi germany', it's simply a matter of them constantly pushing and prodding and poking until another huge division of the states occurs. That's ultimately where it will head.

Right now, the AR-15 is THE most popular firearm in America. It was just a little over a decade ago where it was federally illegal to buy one. Imagine if they did that again. An entire industry would shut down overnight, millions of citizens would lose their right to purchase one (or possibly just own one, if they aren't grandfathered in...California is doing this with some AR accessories right now). I have a feeling if they did this, the backlash would be explosive. There's a lot of states in the union that just wouldn't tolerate it, along with the citizens of those states.

[Focalor]

I'm not even going to address the churchhill vs hitler

Kinda weird though. I've talked to a few neo-nazi skinheads, and when they start mentioning bullshit about how the holocaust never happened, I show them hundreds of pictures of it and remind them that Photoshop wasn't around in WW2, and then they kinda clam up too and refuse to discuss it further, saying that I should do the research for myself and not believe the "propaganda".

All I can tell you is to do some research and maybe free yourself from a life of propaganda and robot-think.

Okie dokie. And where do you suggest I do this research? Stormfront.org perhaps?

As for pegging you as an Alex Jones fan... well... those tin-foil hat wearing windbags all say the known facts about 9/11 are "supposedly the truth" too. Does a comma really make a difference?

Supposedly fire is hot.
Supposedly, fire is hot.

DIFFERENCE!?! DIFFERENCE!?! WHERE ARE YOU, DIFFERENCE!?! WHERE HAST THOU GONE!?!

Ne'ertheless... Sometimes, a difference, there is.



Supposedly, some people think that Al-Qaeda operators weren't flying planes into buildings and it was an inside job/controlled detonation/etc/etc/etc. But unfortunately for those people, the airlines had passenger logs. Unfortunately for those people, the airports had security cameras. Unfortunately for those people, investigators were able to use such data to retroactively track where these operators had been in the last months and years before they carried out their plot. Unfortunately for those people, there's a whole shitload of real families out there right now missing their loved ones who were on those flights and they will never see or hear from them again. Unfortunately for those people, some of those same families received cell phone calls from their loved ones minutes before they died telling them, "Our plane has just been hijacked by a bunch of Muzzies, I think we're going to die."

ID's survived a fire? What the fuck!?! Do you think they just sifted through the rubble and found their drivers licenses and said, "Oh wow. Well... these must be the guys. Cool. That was easy." If you believe they were "hack pilots", clearly you haven't been paying attention. One had a commercial pilots license. The others took flying lessons here in the United States, practiced constantly with PC flight simulators, and studied the subject extensively with books about commercial airliners.

Evidence. Evidence. Evidence. I have seen it. I have presented it. I attack no one for what SEEMS stupid, I berate them for what IS stupid. Using emotions and intuitive feelings to "suppose" things when the eyes and ears can KNOW them... yeah, it's kinda stupid. Lecturing others about your viewpoints with no desire to defend them when they are questioned... is pretty weak,... bruh.

[MadGypsy]

@focalor - you have all the answers, bro. What can I possibly tell you that you don't have definitive proof of already? I'm sorry I don't look at everything through a toilet paper roll. For the record, I could argue EVERYTHING you just said but, to what end? What do I get for all my lost time explaining things to someone that has it "all figured out."? I'd rather you just think I'm an idiot. I don't lose or waste anything that way. Your mind is too closed to let anything in.

@-"Our plane has just been hijacked by a bunch of Muzzies, I think we're going to die."
Just to let you know, this was not even possible to do back then and numerous people said that the person that called them did not seem like their loved one. But hey, what do I know?

Let me guess you think a plane also hit the pentagon, too. Cause planes completely disintegrate into holes substantially smaller than themself... Even the news agencies admitted that it was a REALLY hard pill to swallow due to how completely impossible that is. Where's the video of the plane hitting the pentagon? Am I to believe the terrorists hit the only camera blindspot or something equally ridiculous? Thats the one place where there should have been numerous videos from many angles, yet there is nothing.

Or maybe you would like to explain the plane that completely disintegrated into a hole in the ground in a field...
or how the fuck planes are disintegrating would be a good start.

There is a funny thing abut elaborate hoaxes - they are elaborate. Usually unbelievably so.

[Focalor]

@focalor - you have all the answers, bro. What can I possibly tell you that you don't have definitive proof of already? I'm sorry I don't look at everything through a toilet paper roll.

Nah, you just SMOKE everything through one.

For the record, I could argue EVERYTHING you just said but, to what end? What do I get for all my lost time explaining things to someone that has it "all figured out."? I'd rather you just think I'm an idiot. I don't lose or waste anything that way. Your mind is too closed to let anything in.

To what end? How about the end of not having me think you're an idiot. You'd RATHER have me think that? See, that's fabricated cardboard bullshit, and we BOTH know it. If you didn't care if people thought you were an idiot, you wouldn't bother waxing enlightened about all this crap in the first place. C'mon, don't fuckin' p-u-s-s out on me now.

@-"Our plane has just been hijacked by a bunch of Muzzies, I think we're going to die."
Just to let you know, this was not even possible to do back then and numerous people said that the person that called them did not seem like their loved one. But hey, what do I know?

It ain't always what you DO know. Sometimes, it's what you DON'T. What don't you know? That it was ENTIRELY possible to do back then. It was possible to do BEFORE back then. Airfones?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1a4JmfBm9o"]This "feels" like a hoax[/ame]

Holy crap. I thought it was an old Grecian 5 commercial at first. And would you look at that... an Alex Jones video in the related videos, winkie winkie.

Let me guess you think a plane also hit the pentagon, too. Cause planes completely disintegrate into holes substantially smaller than themself... Even the news agencies admitted that it was a REALLY hard pill to swallow due to how completely impossible that is. Where's the video of the plane hitting the pentagon? Am I to believe the terrorists hit the only camera blindspot or something equally ridiculous? Thats the one place where there should have been numerous videos from many angles, yet there is nothing.

Where? Here.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f6t4dMtc00"]This is probably bullshit[/ame]

Youtube has this nifty search box at the top. Just in case that helps.

Exactly how fucking flimsy do you think the Pentagon was constructed? They didn't make the outer shell of it out of the same bullshit that they made the World Trade Center out of. There's layer of bricks and rebar and concrete, and regular single sized wooden frame 2-pane windows set into the concrete, not huge panes of glass held on with rubber seals and chewing gum like how they make high rise office buildings. Furthermore, you can look at any photo and clearly see where the wings smashed into the building on the 1st and 2nd stories and damaged the... yeah, fuck it, I forget, your eyes don't "suppose" shit as good as your intuition.

Or maybe you would like to explain the plane that completely disintegrated into a hole in the ground in a field...
or how the fuck planes are disintegrating would be a good start.

OH BOY, WOULD I!?!

And here I thought you had convinced yourself that all of this was just a waste of time! Yet here you remain, questioning MY viewpoint and demanding proof. That's kinda what... I was doing, wasn't it? Ah, such a clever one. The ole end-around misdirection play.

Any-god-damn-way...

Okay. Let's say for a minute that this "hole in the ground in a field" was caused by a... aw shit, I dunno... let's say... a missile. Is that what you're thinking it was? Okay. Then... where's the pieces of the missile? Did they "disintegrate"? Sure they did. Why? Because it was traveling at a high rate of speed before it hit the ground and discharged the explosive and combustive compound located inside of it. Guess what... jet fuel is explosive and combustive. That's why Al Qaeda knew a jet was a perfect weapon to destroy a building. When loaded up full of fuel, a jumbojet becomes the largest guided RPG missile those asshats could ever fire at someone. And as a weapon, they wouldn't have to pay for it or build it. Hijacking a plane is FREE! In years before, they tried the old Tim McVeigh UHaul truck bomb bullshit in the basement parking decks. Those bomb materials weren't free. But those planes only cost the price of a ticket and a box cutter. Osama loved him some cheap Jihad.

There is a funny thing abut elaborate hoaxes - they are elaborate. Usually unbelievably so.

There's another funny thing about elaborate hoaxes. The more elaborate they are, the dumber you have to be to believe them.

(Uh, yeah, I'm talking about the bullshit 9/11 conspiracy rhetoric being the hoax, not 9/11 being the hoax. Yer derp.)

[MadGypsy]

You misunderstand. I don't care if YOU think I'm an idiot. Especially with your penchant to claim I'm an Alex Jones follower, a drug user... You're garbage, brah. You aren't someone that is willing to have an open-minded debate. You are a closed-minded insult slinger. I'm too good to argue with YOU!

Clears recycling bin...after throwing you in it. Don't waste your breath on me. I will absolutely never read anything you have to say for the entire rest of my life. Count on it. You're a garbage person. And before you shove your foot in your mouth trying to claim I ****ed out. I have gone toe to toe with the best this site has to offer. You don't even come close. I'd even go as far as to say that the majority of people here are probably surprised that I am not taking the time to destroy you... I'm pretty damn sure of that.

There's a saying that my father used to tell me "Never argue with an idiot. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." I'm simply following the advice of my father. If you wanted to debate me you should have left the "Alex Jones following, drug using", etc stuff out of it.

[Focalor]

I have more proof that you are a drug using, neo-nazi, Alex Jones fan than you have of Churchill being worse than Hitler and 9/11 being a vast government conspiracy.

Your comments about jews, Hitler, Churchill, the 9/11 conspiracy... none of it is truly "open-minded" on your part to begin with. YOU didn't come up with any of those ideas. You read them on the internet and now you parrot them to everyone line for line. No? Bullshit. You know it. I know it. Lie about it. Doesn't change shit.

Go ahead and don't read that, you twit.

[MadGypsy]

I'd like to address why I didn't expand on Hitler vs Churchill.

I would blow out the max character count for a post 3 or more times laying all the groundwork, reviewing facts and giving you a history lesson. Who has time for that? On what planet do you deserve that much of my time and energy? I'm not your personal history book. Free your little raisin brain and do your own research.

@Hitler sympathizing - Nope. No sympathy what-so-ever but don't put Churchhill in some kind of Miss Congeniality contest with Hitler cause that dude was a serious war criminal in his own right.

PS:
I'm totally dead serious. I really am NEVER going to ever read anything you ever say ever again. If I could remove you from the results I would. Go be garbagey to someone that's willing to overlook it and muster some kind of respect for you despite it.


@baker - see, "terrible person only" policy in action right here.

[Focalor]

There's a saying that my father used to tell me "Never argue with an idiot. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." I'm simply following the advice of my father. If you wanted to debate me you should have left the "Alex Jones following, drug using", etc stuff out of it.

I never saw it as much of an "argument". An argument kind of assumes that more than one side of an issue is tenable. Forensic evidence isn't debatable. It was really just me pissing all over your ridiculous unoriginal viewpoint. If you wanted to make the "supposition" that maybe the presidents cabinet and the intelligence sector had intel indicating a specific type of attack was imminent and they intentionally ignored it and did nothing to investigate it or prevent it for the purpose of gaining political tactical advantage... that would be a more tenable viewpoint than refuting the mountains of concrete proof detailed in the 911 commission report.

Don't need to know about your dad. On his behalf, I'd prefer if you'd leave him out of any discussion ever again. He may not wish to be linked to the same "ideas" you have.

Don't read this either, numb nuts.

@baker - I'm an even WORSE person in real life. You have NO idea.

[DeathMaster]

Look, I doubt the US is totally willing to attack two national monuments to get their way in the Middle East, primarily because it didn't pan out at all. While I don't deny the took advantage of the situation, killing 3000+ of their own citizens doesn't seem logical. If you want to talk about planes hitting the Pentagon, I know an old army buddy of my father's from their time in Korea circa 1985-89, and she was there when it got hit.

[Focalor]

Of course. Common sense says the 911 conspiracy truthers are completely clueless.

For it to have been an "inside job", consider for a moment how many people would have to be in on it. The president, most of his staff, lots of military personnel, all of congress, lots of people working for the airline, lots of air traffic controllers and their bosses,... the list goes on and on and on. If anyone thinks congress can come together to do something unanimously, they're fucking crazy. If anyone thinks the democratic party wouldn't spend multiple millions of dollars investigating things and getting hard evidence that a republican president was to blame for the single biggest attack on US mainland soil ever in order to discredit them and eliminate the republican party as political rivals, they're fucking crazy. If anyone thinks THAT many people would've been involved in such an elaborate hoax and ALL of them would've been able to keep their mouth shut, they're fucking crazy. Somebody, somewhere, at some point, they would have talked.

I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said, "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead."

[Mugwump]

national monuments

Uhh, what?

killing 3000+ of their own citizens doesn't seem logical.

Sure, like it never happens...